Help Removable Lab Fees?

[WaRobert]

Hi all. Did LMT came out with a new average lab fee survey? I tried lsearching, but can't find any. The only

thing I found was the 2010 survey. H E L P...

Thanks

 

[XxJamesAxX]

Here is a link to the 2012....

http://www.lmtmag.com/pdfs/2012_Restoration_Fees_by_Region.pdf

 

[rkm rdt]

That's pathetic , no wonder labs are going out of business.

 

[JohnWilson]

That's pathetic , no wonder labs are going out of business.

I was thinking the same thing, very few of my prices are remotely close to the highest average fee (mine are way above). I guess that's why its an AVERAGE fee of the submissions.

They used to have a breakdown of high and low submitted data, I also remember reading years ago that the sample size was quite small that reported their fees. Wonder how accurate the data is to the real world.

 

[rkm rdt]

Who wants to be average?

 

[doug]

I don't think the fees are anywhere near realistic. That being said, there are docs who will use this info to argue that "You are charging more than the national average", ask me how I know.

 

[AJEL]

With Midwest, Webster, Alpine moving in I have been attacked with price demands that make this list look good. That being said I also have a new group of low end (Russian, Polish, Mexican, Vietnam, Philippine) of whom the average of this list would almost be double what they are sending lists to my customers. I have lost a few customers, when I refuse to adjust to these lists they share with me.
You guys in Canada do not know how good you have it with the system up there, John you know I'm trying to expand but getting into that new market is quite challenging.
Unfortunately they forget how often you have gone beyond to help them out, they are now not caring about what you might know, you get a few lists handed to you and some of the DDS are saying see what I can pay.

Doug I'm guessing you are sensing some corporate dentistry your way to hyh?

 

[Tayebdental]

That being said I also have a new group of low end (Russian, Polish, Mexican, Vietnam, Philippine) of whom the average of this list would almost be double what they are sending lists to my customers.

You could say that again, off the ship, a week later, a price cutting dental dungeon.

 

[rkm rdt]

I know we have it good here Ajel. I really appreciate everything our association members have done to achieve professional status here. Without it we would be in your shoes for sure.

However I do see our licensing system being watered down to accept more labour mobility, but you still have to be proficient in everything to obtain accreditation.

We've dodged the economic slowdown somewhat but the enviro mentals are determined to make us a third world country.

 

[XxJamesAxX]

The story that I keep hearing from doctors is that "Corporate Dentistry" is taking over so much it's forcing me to lower my prices to compete so they need a lab that will "work with them" (another words lower your prices or I'm going somewhere else) so that they can compete.

What I keep saying is why compete with them? Everyone knows the quality of work those chains are producing. It will come back to bite them, and the patients will come back aswell. If nothing else maybe these chains will bring public awareness to you get what you pay for... (Even though that statement isn't always true either)

 

[2thm8kr]

The story that I keep hearing from doctors is that "Corporate Dentistry" is taking over so much it's forcing me to lower my prices to compete so they need a lab that will "work with them" (another words lower your prices or I'm going somewhere else) so that they can compete.

What I keep saying is why compete with them? Everyone knows the quality of work those chains are producing. It will come back to bite them, and the patients will come back aswell. If nothing else maybe these chains will bring public awareness to you get what you pay for... (Even though that statement isn't always true either)

I'm seeing a trend right now with my specialist clients. Patients are coming in for a DX plan and going elsewhere to receive treatment, i.e. corporate dental chains, for lower restorative fees. At this time I'd like to think it's an unrecovered economy thing, but with Obama care looming I'm starting to think things will start to get a lot tougher since dental care is not a part of our fine President's plan. Faster, cheaper, and better value is the market trend of the future perhaps?

 

[alphadental]

With Midwest, Webster, Alpine moving in I have been attacked with price demands that make this list look good. That being said I also have a new group of low end (Russian, Polish, Mexican, Vietnam, Philippine) of whom the average of this list would almost be double what they are sending lists to my customers.

I am Russian and my prices one of the highest in area

 

[AJEL]

I am Russian and my prices one of the highest in area

I am happy to hear this, I would also suspect that your product is some of the better in the area as well. The product that these new opens is not, and as they will open for 6 months to a year and them move leaving the customers with product that breaks or stains & falls apart. This is a removable thread, teeth falling out of a denture, I have been flooded with cases I cannot repair properly, sometimes I can rebase, but often the teeth used aren't worth the effort. I have started calling these Gypsies Labs. My roots may be Lithuania, Sicily, & Poland, but I am American, I have only visited Sicily, when I was in EU there was still a wall.

 

[alphadental]

I can't attach photo

 

[alphadental]

 

[XxJamesAxX]

Ok guys I have to ask, my prices in general are inline or slightly above the avg. from the LMT ad.

I'm in Ky and were cheap here...

But in regards to the immediate charge. I'm way off the boat here... Do you guys charge it as an additional feature to let's say a "premium denture".

So it's line Itemed as an example:

Premium Denture Set/process: $$
Immediate charge (per arch/per tooth): $$
Teeth used: $$ (if not included)
So on and so on.....

This is how I do it and I charge per arch no matter how many teeth I remove, but my prices are no ways near that charge.

I'm actually ashamed to say how low they are but we set the price off of our time and prices in the area when we opened but really feel like I'm screwing myself if you guys are getting that kind of money....

Come to think of it I don't think we've raised our immediate charge in the 6 years we've been open so I'm sure it's low just never thought of it being that low.

Thanks....

 

[AJEL]

In removable some charge a complete fee.
I charge as I go,
custom tray $$
Processed base & wax rim $$
Articulation fee
Set up per arch either a regular set up or a tryin immediate charge or a viewing immediate charge.
Teeth are at whatever teeth are requested $$
if there are more than 2 bite resets I charge a reart & reset after 2 new bites charge $$
upon approval then processing fee$$, IL ID Fee

I have gone to the as you go as a DDS tends to not want to prepay (at least not the ones I know)
When I tried waiting to the end some never came back for the process, the DDS sent to a cheap lab & I got $crewed out of materials & labor, or the cash flow gets so bad that if you have to wait 3-6 mo to be paid, you have the chance of dieting when not needed.

Don't feel to bad James my last increase was this year to cover product tax increases the one prior was in 2001 about 5% and when I did that I lost almost 1/3 because they thought they should never have to pay more from a removable lab. I'm stubborn sometimes some have asked if I would take their work at the old fee schedule, they didn't like me asking if they charged the same now as last century.

 

[araucaria]

EXTRACT

Don't feel to bad James my last increase was this year to cover product tax increases the one prior was in 2001 about 5% and when I did that I lost almost 1/3 because they thought they should never have to pay more from a removable lab. I'm stubborn sometimes some have asked if I would take their work at the old fee schedule, they didn't like me asking if they charged the same now as last century.

Good for you AJ, I put my fees up too and lost some clients, but they're coming back slowly one by one - they realise the cost of wasted surgery time after a few difficulties with basement-price labs.

 

[2bearnest]

?

 

[drm313mac]

Guys (and gals),I see a major fallacy here.

The prices quoted are for the base denture, with very basic (cheap) teeth, and the lab's real profit is in the upsell of the teeth. We charge ~$250 for our middle-of-the-road denture. When the referring office wants better than say Yamahachi teeth, say Artegrals, that is where we make our real profit in the denture.
DSG (a local national chain lab) follows the exact same system (their CDT is now our CDT).

That $250 fee is for Diamond-D injected thermal processed dentures.