Gingival colors:

[Empire C&B]

Easier to hit with the Deep Dentin kit, or staining?

 

[CatamountRob]

Gingival colors or cervical colors?

 

[sixonice]

Easier to hit with the Deep Dentin kit, or staining?

gingiva shades are easiest to hit with the actual gingiva (tissued colored) porcelains. is that your question? trying to replicate tissue color?

 

[Al.]

Gingival colors or cervical colors?

Yeah they are 2 different animals. But for cervicals I really like the cervical dentin and cervical trans porc rather than the deep dentin.

I really like Cervical Trans Yellow and Orange and also Cervical Dentin D2/3 for pfms.

 

[Empire C&B]

Sorry...my bad, Cervical color.

 

[Al.]

Sorry...my bad, Cervical color.

IMO stains suck at the cervical.

What I use depends on the material. PFM, PFM with porc shoulder, All ceramic.

For a straight pfm no shoulder, start out opaquing the cervical 1 shade darker
to help knock down the high value.

 

[Empire C&B]

For a straight pfm no shoulder, start out opaquing the cervical 1 shade darker
to help knock down the high value.

I have found this to work for me as well, Al. I was wondering if (actually assuming) the same held true for Emax, layering a dentin material for color at the cervical, as opposed to staining. I have noticed the full press posteriors just don't look quite right in the cervical area.

 

[Al.]

I have found this to work for me as well, Al. I was wondering if (actually assuming) the same held true for Emax, layering a dentin material for color at the cervical, as opposed to staining. I have noticed the full press posteriors just don't look quite right in the cervical area.

Most emax press and stain posteriors are on the economy side so I just stain the cervical with the shade pastes.
The LT ingots come out too light and high value.

For upper bis that are more in the esthetic zone it depends on the Dr.
If they are more economy crowns or crowns for a higher end Dr.

If they are more economy, layer the incisal 1/3 and stain the gin.

If for a higher end Dr and especially one that takes before and after photos
I keep the surface stain to a minimum, it photographs terrible.

You can stain it then lay incisal over it, but I prefer to use either dentin or cervical trans Y,O,O-P, or Khaki depending on the trans and chroma of the teeth you are matching.
For me it is easier to lay colored porc one time than to stain then do a seperate layering bake.

 

[Empire C&B]

Great looking work Al I have only pressed LT so far, and did notice they seem light for press and stain posteriors. How do the MO ingots compare?

 

[Empire C&B]

Also, the cervical trans, is that the Intensive Margin material? Asking because I dislike using staining also, anything beyond slight and it kills vitality.

 

[Al.]

Great looking work Al I have only pressed LT so far, and did notice they seem light for press and stain posteriors. How do the MO ingots compare?

They dont have MO unless the new impulse are considered MO but those are more for venners I think.

I use the HT often for molars, sometimes a shade lighter though (sometimes not) because they have a lower value in the mouth.

But often it looks better to have a molar that is a bit on the grey side than one that shines like a head light.

I wouldnt use HT for anything but press and stain molars though or thin venners. But I think the impulse is MO and for thin venners.

 

[Al.]

Also, the cervical trans, is that the Intensive Margin material? Asking because I dislike using staining also, anything beyond slight and it kills vitality.

No Intensive Margin is the modifiers for shoulder porc. The shoulder porc is good for when you use HO or Zir copings, They have high value like a pfm so you cut the coping back slightly and do a porc shoulder just like a pfm.

The cervical trans powders are part of the Impulse kit.

If you have picky Drs that send pics and they want them matched with the same character that natural teeth have you will need the Impulse kit.
Also if you do alot of single anteriors it is a must IMO.

I use the cervical trans also to give the that gingival "warmth" that Drs often ask for also interproximally at the cerivical it really has a great effect.
I use it at the cervical for my wash bake on LT.

Also there are the Opal incisals 1-4 and Opal Violet.
Trans Grey, Trans Orange Grey, Trans Brown grey,Trans Blue, Mamelon porc, incisal edge porc, really everything you need to match single anteriors or even multiple unit cosmetic cases with some natural character.

 

[Empire C&B]

Thanks for that info Al. Looks like the impulse kit is a must have.

 

[Al.]

Thanks for that info Al. Looks like the impulse kit is a must have.

Well it is for me.

I just recieved some pics for this case this afternoon.
The Dr seated the upper 10 a couple of days ago and preped the lower 10 this afternoon. Those are temps on the lowers now.

They are layered veneers, BL2 LT over ND8 preps. The final came out very close to 1m1.

I didnt put any cervical coloring on the venners I was thinking there would be a bit of show through, but there dosent appear to be any.

I wish I had now, right below the height of contours where it is a bit necked down, kind of like the icing on the cake.
Its the small things like the cervical colors that can make a case stand out or appear more realistic. Especially on the M and D it can make wide teeth look narrower.

 

[Empire C&B]

Very nice. Hard to believe it came out 1m1 over ND8. The checking/crazing is very subtle also, good work.

 

[Al.]

Very nice. Hard to believe it came out 1m1 over ND8. The checking/crazing is very subtle also, good work.

Yeah BL2 covers up alot.

Ok I found these pics this is a B1ish shade with a very small band of Cervical Trans Yellow on the facial extended into the interproximal.

IMO adding cerivical color in moderation so it blends in really makes a difference.

 

[Empire C&B]

Agreed. That's a much more natural result than staining for cervical color.