full ziconium dentures

[baylorboy]

hi I am looking for labs providing Zirkozahn & Prettau dentures for Implant supported dentures.
You can send your contact details and pricing details (including the temporary denture)to [email protected]

If someone is using other system for full zirconium dentures I am still interested to know , its just that i could not find any other over the internet. THanks & regards

 

[eyeloveteeth]

izir from CAP is i think what you are looking for.

 

[corona]

zirkonzahn was the first with their prettau zirconia for partial or full denture type hybrid zirconia prosthesis.... as a matter of fact zirkonzahn came out with full contour zirconia before glidewells bruxir . They have been the pioneers in zirconia /full contour zirconia . Great company . Izir looks to be a great product as well but did come after zirkonzahn.

 

[jackjabbour]

a doctor stopped in the lab today and asked me if I could do a prettau zirconia bridge on an "all on four"? he said the ones he's seen have been on at least 6+ implants but was wondering if you could do the zirconia bridge on only four?? I didnt have an answer but told him I'd get back with him. Any help would be appreciated.... thanks guys!

jack

 

[dmonwaxa]

Yes you can but you may have to shorten the overall span. Also depends on how well spaced the implants are.

 

[droberts]

A prosthesis that ridgid on 4 implants. Would not even consider it.

 

[JohnWilson]

A prosthesis that ridgid on 4 implants. Would not even consider it.

What does this mean Danny?

With a suitable AP spread, with a distal cantilever APPROPRIATE to the AP spread, with enough VD to make proper sized joints, I see no reason why this would not work. IN fact I know of guys doing it.

Really wonder what you meant.

 

[grantoz]

done 150 so far. 1st one 8 years ago none broken

 

[droberts]

My clients are a bit more conservative on stress. Maybe against an opposing arch of a denture. But natural dentition, and 4 implants. Something
has to give. grantoz, 150 so far and 1st one 8 years ago and none broken. Show us the wear on the opposing arch.
John, you on FB dental tech site. Jackson posted the max denture with a tooth broken out. Not the same issue here but close to the subject.
Due to the occlusion, I presented a photo of a max. arch with gold metal onlays. With him only having 4 implants, he did not want something
that ridgid due to it could possibly break screws. Now try an put a full arch ZR with the same amount of implants. Sure there may be the perfect
situation for this type of prosthesis, but not for everyone.

What does this mean Danny?

With a suitable AP spread, with a distal cantilever APPROPRIATE to the AP spread, with enough VD to make proper sized joints, I see no reason why this would not work. IN fact I know of guys doing it.

Really wonder what you meant.

 

[dmonwaxa]

droberts your concerns are well noted, but John also made made a good argument. I agree with both to a thought processes to a certain degree; conservative yes. It all boils down to patient selection, patient selection, patient selection.

 

[JohnWilson]

My clients are a bit more conservative on stress. Maybe against an opposing arch of a denture. But natural dentition, and 4 implants. Something
has to give. grantoz, 150 so far and 1st one 8 years ago and none broken. Show us the wear on the opposing arch.
John, you on FB dental tech site. Jackson posted the max denture with a tooth broken out. Not the same issue here but close to the subject.
Due to the occlusion, I presented a photo of a max. arch with gold metal onlays. With him only having 4 implants, he did not want something
that ridgid due to it could possibly break screws. Now try an put a full arch ZR with the same amount of implants. Sure there may be the perfect
situation for this type of prosthesis, but not for everyone.

Hi Danny,

Concerns noted, the occ wear on the appliance is the biggest issues with resin hybrids. No matter how well you manage the occ on the restoration the restoration will fails/or at the very minimum will need added work to maintain satisfactory results.

The case Jackson posted on facebook I think you will see I posted in that thread before you Anyhow that case is failing repeatedly because the post denture teeth are wearing and the ant are coming in harder contact with the opposing and something has got to give. As we move forward with materials that are more and more bullet proof from fracturing the load and stress has to go somewhere. Your right utilizing 4 fixtures could prove to be a problem long term and most definitely if one of the fixtures fails the total restoration is a failure. With that being said the fact that its still a viable restorative choice is true, while I would most definitely find a way for a 5th or 6th fixture its never up to me

 

[CRWNMKR]

Hi john, what is the name of this thread on Facebook ? Thank you

 

[JohnWilson]

Sorry Dennis, he may have pulled it, I just went looking for it and I could not find it.

 

[dmonwaxa]

Well said John, I couldnt have said it any better, and couldnt agree more.

Hi Danny,

Concerns noted, the occ wear on the appliance is the biggest issues with resin hybrids. No matter how well you manage the occ on the restoration the restoration will fails/or at the very minimum will need added work to maintain satisfactory results.

The case Jackson posted on facebook I think you will see I posted in that thread before you Anyhow that case is failing repeatedly because the post denture teeth are wearing and the ant are coming in harder contact with the opposing and something has got to give. As we move forward with materials that are more and more bullet proof from fracturing the load and stress has to go somewhere. Your right utilizing 4 fixtures could prove to be a problem long term and most definitely if one of the fixtures fails the total restoration is a failure. With that being said the fact that its still a viable restorative choice is true, while I would most definitely find a way for a 5th or 6th fixture its never up to me

 

[droberts]

Gentlemen, there is no argument. It is a discussion of opinions. Doctors as well as us techs all have different opinions. In cases as such, there maybe no right or wrong.
To this day, have only done two (2),All-on four wrap around hybrids in 30 years. One Straumann, and one Nobel. So being that, I am just saying my clients as well as myself
are a bit more conservative as others. I sleep very well

droberts your concerns are well noted, but John also made made a good argument. I agree with both to a thought processes to a certain degree; conservative yes. It all boils down to patient selection, patient selection, patient selection.

 

[BobCDT]

Interesting topic. I look at these cases as all on four equals nothing on three.
However, the reasearch coming out is very favorable on long term serviceability of all on four cases. We are seeing more and more of these cases.
John, what are you using for a maximum canteliver length as it relates to the AP dimension? I have read loads of studies on this and have seen very conflicting info.
Personally, I would much rather have 6. The patient is spending so much money on these cases the dentist should toss in an extra implants or two.
As for materials, I can't buy into angalose denture tooth and acrylic cases. Patients deserve restorations that last longer.
Yes, Zirconzahn developed the Pretau bridge before we came out with Izir. It was a challenge for our team to get this done in an open system. I do give ZZ credit for the initial development of this type of restoration. Great product. Thank you ZZ.

 

[JohnWilson]

John, what are you using for a maximum canteliver length as it relates to the AP dimension? I have read loads of studies on this and have seen very conflicting info.

Hi Bob I have a lot of experience with Ti/resin hybrids and the majority of the bars I have produced have been with Nobels scanner/software. The software automatically calculates the ap and suggest the max cant length. I think it uses the 1.5 formula.

Here is a good reference for techs not familiar with the formula.

http://thecuriousdentist.com/how-far-can-i-cantilever-from-implants-a-p-spread-explained/

As for Zi and 3shape I have little experience with ZI full arch and still using very conservative numbers. I am more concerned with joint size but I have been exceedingly carful with case selection and cantilever length.

 

[martintay]

That's an interesting / practical guide. Thanks John.

 

[grantoz]

As With ALL restos on full arch cases you must get the occlusion spot on and if you adjust you must finish the teeth properly as I have said a number of times this goes for vmk , emax and denture teeth [they just break off] as well as zirconia, any teeth made with ceramic if not polished properly will abrade the opposing very quickly ,look back at what you have seen with old vmks wearing grooves in the opposing dentition. Zirconia when polished properly is the smoothest and least abrasive of all ceramics there a number of studies to prove this yes less abrasive than emax.I do work with 6 or more prosthodontists and believe me they ride your ass on all these things. What they are doing is replacing a lot of old all on 4 resin hybrid restos with zirconia as they are sick of the resin failures and in some cases the legal payouts . The bottom line on these large cases people pay a lot of money and they expect that they wont fail in some cases as little as 2 years you cant guarantee that with resin hybrids.If you don't believe that I have been doing full arch zirc cases for 8 years I cant help that but I did train with enrico steger when he was doing the training in the early days I purchased the hand mill in 2005 and the M5 in 2009 this is why at times I cant get my head around peoples views about it failing and abrading and all the doom and gloom. this stuff has been around for quite a while now and as one of the other guys on this sight said the sky still hasn't fallen.

 

[ICONDENTAL]

a doctor stopped in the lab today and asked me if I could do a prettau zirconia bridge on an "all on four"? he said the ones he's seen have been on at least 6+ implants but was wondering if you could do the zirconia bridge on only four?? I didnt have an answer but told him I'd get back with him. Any help would be appreciated.... thanks guys!

jack

yes you can . every implant after the fourth one is charge extra.