De-bubblizer

[PGguy]

Hey guys,

Is anybody using debubblizer for pressing e-max? I use Pressvest & Speed. I am getting too many bubbles i feel, some ridiculously huge! I think it just me or more people would be complaining.

my technique:

after preloading prep side(which i feel i do carefully, but still get bubbles?!?) I pour all over crowns while filling up silicone molds to reduce surface tension. When I get to crowns i slowly pour at side while it fills up watching for bubbles geting pushed to the top, then stop filling when I get to scrib line.

= bubbles... wtf

Should i not have the sprue base on the vibrator while filling? Just the edge of bowl that I mixed the investment with?

any tips? I love you forever!!


Sean

 

[rkm rdt]

I use Super Wet by Orbix debubblizer

Spray in the waxup just prior to investing .Leave it wet as per the instructions.

I use a used porcelain brush to apply investment.

 

[paulg100]

no debublizer and no bubbles what so ever, generally try to use metal instrument to deposit investment into patterns.

A brush has the potential to trap air in the bristles so i avoid it. The recommended way to avoid this is dip the bursh in the investment first then squeeze out, but i find a fine metal instrument works just as well.

One thing i havnt had a chance of looking into yet is using the micro vibes instrument from smileline as a investment delivery instrument. I think this could has some great potential as an investment delivery tool although it is designed for porcelain.

 

[PGguy]

no debublizer and no bubbles what so ever, generally try to use metal instrument to deposit investment into patterns.

A brush has the potential to trap air in the bristles so i avoid it. The recommended way to avoid this is dip the bursh in the investment first then squeeze out, but i find a fine metal instrument works just as well.

One thing i havnt had a chance of looking into yet is using the micro vibes instrument from smileline as a investment delivery instrument. I think this could has some great potential as an investment delivery tool although it is designed for porcelain.

Are you using pressvest?

 

[charles007]

No bubbles, no debubblizer with Yeti die lube .......Since I started using Yeti, I almost never get any kind of bubbles...

I used a box of speed press, no problems with an instrument, use a brush on the occlusal. Put investment in you pattern before you put the ring on, while you investment is more runny....then quickly place the ring on and pour about 16" or so above with your bowl with light vibration. Don't over virbrate. I only vibrate when the investment is flowing in the pattern and just a second after I finish.
I now use Microstar HS, since I use on my pfms...its a thinner mix. I use the same technique. Brush investment over your pattern so you want get bubbles in your grooves .
If you flow into your ring first ,then flow into your pattern, you may get large bubble. Use an instrument or brush on a thin amount in the bottom of the pattern and add more with light vibration on the edge of your vibrator........Don't just drop in a large amount of investment . Just like pouring a model, you want to see the investment flow to the bottom of the pattern and flow up.... If it flows in to fast, very quickly put your instrument to the bottom of the pattern or wipe out with a brush.....

Yea, I know brushes can traps air, its really a matter of learning how to use either.
Lastly, follow the mixing directions very carefully, and don't waste time.

 

[PGguy]

No bubbles, no debubblizer with Yeti die lube .......Since I started using Yeti, I almost never get any kind of bubbles...

I used a box of speed press, no problems with an instrument, use a brush on the occlusal. Put investment in you pattern before you put the ring on, while you investment is more runny....then quickly place the ring on and pour about 16" or so above with your bowl with light vibration. Don't over virbrate. I only vibrate when the investment is flowing in the pattern and just a second after I finish.
I now use Microstar HS, since I use on my pfms...its a thinner mix. I use the same technique. Brush investment over your pattern so you want get bubbles in your grooves .
If you flow into your ring first ,then flow into your pattern, you may get large bubble. Use an instrument or brush on a thin amount in the bottom of the pattern and add more with light vibration on the edge of your vibrator........Don't just drop in a large amount of investment . Just like pouring a model, you want to see the investment flow to the bottom of the pattern and flow up.... If it flows in to fast, very quickly put your instrument to the bottom of the pattern or wipe out with a brush.....

Yea, I know brushes can traps air, its really a matter of learning how to use either.
Lastly, follow the mixing directions very carefully, and don't waste time.

Do you dip pattern in the yeti lube and blow off (thats what she said)before you invest? or just use for seperator for wax-ups?

 

[rkm rdt]

I have no bubbles when I use a brush because I use debubblizer.

 

[TheLabGuy]

I use a brush without debubblizer and don't have a problem

 

[charles007]

I only use Yeti as a die lube with a #4 synthetic brush .( No debubblizer) Clean -wash my brush very often to keep a good tip.

 

[nzbroadbean]

I use an old mixing tip from gingiva mask as a investing tool. The pink silicone is perfect because it is soft so you will never damage anything and it has a fine point that the investment flows from perfectly without bubbles. I have used sherafina 2000, pressvest and GC pressing investment with and without tension reliever.

I think that using surface tension reliever is fine. It gives a thicker reaction layer on the ceramic if you don't blow of the spray off before hand. (I think the spray mixes with the investment creating a local high water/powder ratio which gives a rough press).

The best spray I have found is the stuff made by shera. I spray it on and while the investment is mixing I blow it off with low pressure compressed air from a distance until there is no visable liquid. (i think the water in the spray evaporates leaving a precipitate of the liquid on the surface. this precipitate is like a soap layer and is re wet again by the investment creating an emulsification layer on the wax allowing the water and oil (investment and wax) to mix decreasing the wetting angle or at least that is what I think I learnt about polar/non-polar interactions from chemistry).
I pick up a small amount of investment in the silicone gingiva mixing tip and with my pinky finger between the ring and the vibrator I touch the tip to the inside margin of the crown. You then need to see the investment going to the bottom of the crown... If it goes to fast or you don't see it blow the investment out with compressed air and then try again. once your crowns are full pour the investment from a high hight (thin stream of investment means less chance of bubble (a bubble can not be bigger in diameter than the stream of investment)) and try to miss the pattens ( you already know they are bubble free, you don't want to flow potentially bubbly investment over them, they are also delicate).

I used to get bubbles but as long as I watch the investment to the bottom of the patten I don't.

I also agree with the comment on yeti lube. It effectively creates an emulsion layer on the surface unlike some other separators. You can also brush it on occlusal contours and blow it off.

 

[dmonwaxa]

Ditto

I use an old mixing tip from gingiva mask as a investing tool. The pink silicone is perfect because it is soft so you will never damage anything and it has a fine point that the investment flows from perfectly without bubbles. QUOTE]