Dawson Academy

[JohnWilson]

Having the arch equilibrated prior to quadrant dentistry is rarely the norm. The fact that the topic of hard to adjust materials is the point of contention is ridiculous. If the client is doing his job the mal-occlusion is remedied prior to any restorative. If the client is doing quadrant dentistry this is rarely ever done.

Everyone of these gurus in my opinion start off on their soap box with valid points but the message is lost when the real world situations/procedures are followed.

 

[2thm8kr]

Having the arch equilateral prior to quadrant dentistry is rarely the norm. The fact that the topic of hard to adjust materials is the point of contention is ridiculous. If the client is doing his job the mal-occlusion is remedied prior to any restorative. If the client is doing quadrant dentistry this is rarely ever done.

Everyone of these gurus in my opinion start off on their soap box with valid points but the message is lost when the real world situations/procedures are followed.

That is due to the lack of education in the real world of clinicians regarding occlusion and function for that matter. If they were all educated, the 'gurus' wouldn't have a soap box to stand on or anyone paying to listen.

 

[charles007]

John, its sad that many of us are now asked to make our crowns totally OUT of occlusion.........
The days of doctors saying they don't mind doing a little adjusting are part of history unless your working with Pankey type doctors,,, some that is

I drop my bite 2 clicks, use .39 out of occlusion, and some docs are still adjusting occlusion.
When did dental schools stop teaching how to make temps.......... lol

 

[CoolHandLuke]

so you work with a Stop Practicing Stephen too, eh?

one of ours always wants "lotsa" foil relief and by that he means way out of function. and if we don't give it to him he grinds on it till he's happy.

very oddly however there are rarely remakes from him.

on topic; i wish i got invited to the cool kid party.

 

[charles007]

so you work with a Stop Practicing Stephen too, eh?

one of ours always wants "lotsa" foil relief and by that he means way out of function. and if we don't give it to him he grinds on it till he's happy.

very oddly however there are rarely remakes from him.

on topic; i wish i got invited to the cool kid party.

This is one of those doctors that I call, All crowns fit..... some fit better than others LOL

 

[Gru]

Whether in the desert or on the coast, I personally have come to regard the training/positions as tools in the toolbox. No tool fits every application. No, I don't pretend to have the education and experience the gurus have, just case by case experience. I strive to keep hold of the valid points and reject the kool-aid. Hope it serves the patient well.... Just my humble opinion.

I am in awe of the effort the gurus have expended to validate their views, though.

 

[rkm rdt]

At this point , I'm just happy to give my drs what they want.

 

[NicelyMKV]

As much as I would love to go back and delete my post regarding emax etc, I will not for clarity purposes. I have no idea how I mis understood the presenter yesterday. He is showing his cases and they are monolithic emax on the posterior and monolithic lingual a with layered facials. Sorry guys....

 

[RileyS]

As much as I would love to go back and delete my post regarding emax etc, I will not for clarity purposes. I have no idea how I mis understood the presenter yesterday. He is showing his cases and they are monolithic emax on the posterior and monolithic lingual a with layered facials. Sorry guys....

So....e.max good. FCZ bad?

 

[NicelyMKV]

I obviously can't speak for these guys. Unbelievable information. Dr. Cranham showed a hybrid case he did. Zr frame with ceramic overlay. I didn't get a chance to ask specific opinion regarding fcz. Seems like zr as a substructure material is ok based on the presentation.


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[NicelyMKV]

I just picked up a new account last week. He heard I was going through the Dawson courses. I met with him and he said " no zr at all" I mentioned simply layering the material to allow for normal occlusal wear. He said that he was part of some group that met once a year. They studied and tested materials. He mentioned that zr wouldn't last past 5 to 6 years on average? He went into specifics regarding the structure of the material etc.. Pfms and EMax. I will ask the name of the group when I get back in town. Wonder if it's alloy biased companies


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[sidesh0wb0b]

I just picked up a new account last week. He heard I was going through the Dawson courses. I met with him and he said " no zr at all" I mentioned simply layering the material to allow for normal occlusal wear. He said that he was part of some group that met once a year. They studied and tested materials. He mentioned that zr wouldn't last past 5 to 6 years on average? He went into specifics regarding the structure of the material etc.. Pfms and EMax. I will ask the name of the group when I get back in town. Wonder if it's alloy biased companies


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so he expects all zi restorations to fail within 5-6 years?
sounds like the same "groups" that said emax would fail within 5 years.

im not putting forth the notion that zi is superior to everything out there,....but I sure as heck don't see it going away due to failures in 5years.
I am interested in what you find out about that group, Jason. youre not far from me and I have a few guys here that are anti-zirconia all across the board. (then again they LOVE the NP PFMs......)

 

[NicelyMKV]

so he expects all zi restorations to fail within 5-6 years?
sounds like the same "groups" that said emax would fail within 5 years.

im not putting forth the notion that zi is superior to everything out there,....but I sure as heck don't see it going away due to failures in 5years.
I am interested in what you find out about that group, Jason. youre not far from me and I have a few guys here that are anti-zirconia all across the board. (then again they LOVE the NP PFMs......)

I fractured #3 when I was 17. My parents just had it extracted. I ended up doing a zr layered bridge years later. Well, I have a bite like a bull dog and it has lasted over 7 years so far. And that's with incorrect substructure support. It was the vita zr material and I wanted plenty of room to hide it...... Waaaaay back there in position 2-4 lol. So I am going to have a more in depth discussion with him when I get back.


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[TheLabGuy]

That's crazy Jason, I'd love to know the 'group', I wonder if it isn't one of those homeopathic Dentists. 5-6 years...seriously, come on, you've got to be close to be entering your fifth year doing zirconia (no?). Sounds like you better sharpen your waxing instrument, that's a pant load of restorations coming back!!! What we see in our lab is pretty even every week. We do on average per week 25 Pfms, 25 e.max, 25 FC zirconia, 10 FC Metal and 10 implants. Dang, that doesn't sound like much, but hey...I'm a one man band in the ceramic department...lol

 

[JohnWilson]

Whose Super Trans ZI will make the biggest splash/debut at Mid winter?

Jason you prefer the DD stains over ZZ? We just started using GC zi and ZZ acids and the results have been pretty sweet just no where near as consistent as the Zeno that we feel we have mastered.

I am really confused on product today, I really thought I had a good understanding of material science but these new Zi are reacting COMPLETELY different to the stain than what I have used.

Curious what people are most excited about being released in Chicago.

 

[NicelyMKV]

Whose Super Trans ZI will make the biggest splash/debut at Mid winter?

Jason you prefer the DD stains over ZZ? We just started using GC zi and ZZ acids and the results have been pretty sweet just no where near as consistent as the Zeno that we feel we have mastered.

I am really confused on product today, I really thought I had a good understanding of material science but these new Zi are reacting COMPLETELY different to the stain than what I have used.

Curious what people are most excited about being released in Chicago.

I prefer the DD stains. Seems to have much more accurate hue to me. The zz stains do not seem as accurate to me.

I have fried my brain trying to make sense of all these zr brands coming out and the major differences I see between them as far as staining. Some take color well, some do not. Some do not hold their color during post stain and glaze and so on. You have high fusing zr and low fusing. More dense green state and less dense. Now the new 700 mpa stuff is really going to throw us for a loop as far as coloring.


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[CoolHandLuke]

"zirc fails in 5-6 years" sounds a lot like our old pal disturbed.

 

[JohnWilson]

Who is the US dealer for DD Jason?

 

[rkm rdt]

"zirc fails in 5-6 years" sounds a lot like our old pal disturbed.

On one hand we hear so much about " using genuine components to honour the warranty",

yet when it comes to zir, this group and others will completely disregard the average 15 year warranty of most manufacturers.

 

[NicelyMKV]

Who is the US dealer for DD Jason?

Colonial Dental is who I order through. (800) 397-1311 they also sell, or will be, the new CubeX2 trans stuff. Same stains work on it as well.