CubeX2

[alaa22]

my cube X2
the best ant. matrial

 

[BobCDT]

So, no second molars? I still haven't pushed this out fully to my accounts. Still getting all the info together. I don't want things fracturing during seating, or a short time down the road..not that this material would.


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I'm doing second molars.

 

[charles007]

At this point I decided to not use on thin molars and especially 2nd molars that tend to have less reduction a lot of times.
Not sure if I will use on posterior bridges or even anterior bridges if connectors are not super tall/ideal thickness. Would prefer to be safe than sorry with newer materials that are weaker and use facial/buccal cutbacks veneered. Only made 3 bridges in emax and decided to not do any more even though zero failures. Emax can fail on bridges.
Years ago I decided to use Inceram on anteriors and Bi's only, no bridges, from the get go and only had 1 failure from thin lingual frame.
Please prove me wrong, I love these newer more translucent zirconia's.

 

[Boozy woozy]

At this point I decided to not use on thin molars and especially 2nd molars that tend to have less reduction a lot of times.
Not sure if I will use on posterior bridges or even anterior bridges if connectors are not super tall/ideal thickness. Would prefer to be safe than sorry with newer materials that are weaker and use facial/buccal cutbacks veneered. Only made 3 bridges in emax and decided to not do any more even though zero failures. Emax can fail on bridges.
Years ago I decided to use Inceram on anteriors and Bi's only, no bridges, from the get go and only had 1 failure from thin lingual frame.
Please prove me wrong, I love these newer more translucent zirconia's.

Hey Charles , maybe you are being a little too cautious. Don't let your suspicion get the better of you ..

 

[charles007]

Hey Charles , maybe you are being a little too cautious. Don't let your suspicion get the better of you ..

I'm using it now but I'll give it 4 to 6 months on bridges and 2nd molars... If bridges are going to fail, it will probably fail quickly from not following guidelines of thickness/connectors.
Really don't think these will fail with correct techniques and correct sintering procedures.

 

[Boozy woozy]

I'm using it now but I'll give it 4 to 6 months on bridges and 2nd molars... If bridges are going to fail, it will probably fail quickly from not following guidelines of thickness/connectors.
Really don't think these will fail with correct techniques and correct sintering procedures.

Which areas of the crown would you regard the weakest and most prone to chipping or breakage?

 

[charles007]

Which areas of the crown would you regard the weakest and most prone to chipping or breakage?

I'm not the expert ! and only seen a few failures in 6+ years using emax/ and regular zirconia ( less than 10 units total remakes, and 1 case was a 3 unit zir bridge/ chuck off the margin popped off when seating and I asked for another impression and didn't get one !) What I've seen in failures is emax and zirconia come back with a large section at the margin that pops off when seating. Most of these cases were doctors using emax for the first time and probably being heavy handed. Had these been pfms, I probably would have been told they didn't fit/seat, and I take it the same holds true for all these pop off failures. Also seen 2 crowns crack on occlusal in Emax and zir, when the doc asked for a reduction coping and they obviously didn't trim the prep enough and the crown cracked during the seating procedure.

"Which areas of the crown would you regard the Weakest and most Prone to chip/breakage " Around the "margin" when feather edge margins are used, in my opinion. Every crown using emax and zirconia that failed/ chipped for me popped off at the margins and all were feather edge margins. Chamfer margins should be used with these all ceramic materials, and I wish I had the ability to restrict the use of feather edge. Considering my remakes are lower with all ceramic materials, I don't consider feather edge margins a problem as long as you receive good impressions/ margins you can read.
Considering the fact there is no adjusting needed in the inside of crowns using zir or emax, I think my failures came from slightly distorted impressions and being heavy handed using all ceramic materials chairside. I think the materials are fine if you don't go over their limitations and being very careful with all the procedures in the lab and chair-side.
CubeX is so much stronger than emax, I really don't see it as a fragile zirconia if there is any misunderstanding of my long post.
No failures with CubeX so far, just don't want to push the limits.

EDIT !!!!!!! I may mislead many techs into thinking I was strictly talking about CubeX in my post above !,,,My long post was talking about regular zir and emax from my experiences with failures. I bet others had the same results.
By no means will I use these new lower MPa zirconia's on anything coming in the door and I will not use on thin restorations until it proven worthy.

 

[eyeloveteeth]

bridge work is finicky....it's not the final cementation...but during try in, it's really easy to shatter it.

 

[rkm rdt]

This material will be pushed over it's limits and eventually discredit all zirconia.

 

[CoolHandLuke]

i just got some of this stuff.

dis gon b gud.

 

[eyeloveteeth]

This material will be pushed over it's limits and eventually discredit all zirconia.

this is what i'm worried about.

We were lucky enough to have had a few doctors beta test this clinically with us and they were really not impressed. Mind you, we picked good doctors....


this will NOT work on shoulder bevel during try in...almost guranteed to crack

 

[ts4341]

Charles, just keeping sending CubeX2 files, they are looking sweet,
Milling out some Imagine today to compare. I' ll post pics tomorrow

Look for our new milling forum and website on DLN coming June 1st.
We our catering milling clients the super translucent Zirconias.
CubeX2, Imagine, CAP Anterior and coming soon Zolid FX!
Thanks Tad

 

[eyeloveteeth]

no one tried the UTML 550?

 

[Boozy woozy]

• Understood Charles . But when a doc sends you a crown prep or bridge prep with very minimal reduction, and not much occlusal clearance , what material do you use? EMax?? Milled or press?? I believe the margins on pressed ceramics are better. What would you say? Do you make any lumineers?? No prep veneers? What material do you use in such a case? I haven't yet tested cube x 2 but would like to. It seems the go2 material for 2015 in terms of zirconia. I believe cap are releasing their new anterior pre shaded super translucent pucks. Which would you recommend in terms if esthetic and convenience ? When you factor in the green state staining of cube x 2 vs the pre shaded translucent pucks , I'm not sure the pre shaded puck are more esthetically pleasing . Would like to get your opinion on it. I'm only getting into cad cam now and making my first investment in a scanner and miller.

 

[BobCDT]

Hi all,
We are taking orders for starter kits for CAP Anterior (CA) now. FDA is complete. We are just waiting for the discs to arrive at CAP. CA will ne available on 16 Vita shades plus bleach. Not that you will need 17 shades.
By adding CA to CubeX2 we can offer a pre shaded system to the CubeX system which requires green state coloring. In our hands, they look really nice and very very similar esthetically.
We recently milled an 8 unit anterior case (same files) in each and used A2 and we really could not see a difference. The product to use will depend on your desire to do green state coloring or not.
On the cons side one system has added inventory and the other has the variables of green state coloring.

 

[charles007]

Boozy, you have so many questions and I don't want to get to far off subject on this Cube X2 thread. Send me a PM and we could talk over the phone if you like..
Just noticed you joined DLN yesterday, so I will send the first PM to you since you may not know how to send PM's.. Look at the top right of this page for Inbox, click to open my PM to you.

If you haven't ordered a system yet, give BobCDT a call at CAP so you will be more educated about cad/cam systems and materials to use.

Charles

 

[ts4341]

Try us out. Coloring & Milling CubeX2 with excellent results
Precision Milled Ceramics

 

[user name]

Try us out. Coloring & Milling CubeX2 with excellent results
Precision Milled Ceramics

Based on esthetics only, which are you getting better results with... CubeX2 or Imagine?

 

[ts4341]

Good Question... I love both! Lava Liquids aren't the best, but the material is superior! The slight edge right now goes to Imagine, base on mill strength, overall strength and a little more brillant look when finished. Very slight thou. Also, both color and sinter very much the same.
Thanks Tad

 

[ts4341]

We are getting beautiful results 1450c @ 120 min. hold. Ramp temps are crucial