Cad/Cam question

[sml2010]

Hi to all


I am very interest in Ivoclar (E.Max) product.

I want ask you :

Does some one use this product in any other CNC machnes? You know that these product is design for Sirona machines but Does some one use these product in any other CNC machines?
do have any problem when you use these product in other CNC machines?
Does any one have any experience with these product and use in other CAD/Cam system and cnc machines?


Thank you

 

[doug]

Yes

 

[dmonwaxa]

Yes

Is that a "yes" to all the above?

 

[Diadem Precision]

We mill e.MAX CAD at Diadem Precision Technology using Roeders 5 axis
mills.
Please give us as call and we'll answer your questions.

Mitch

 

[DMC]

How often or what milling procedures get the ultra-sonic transducer turned on Mitch?

I'm guessing only roughing for ceramics? And, what type of tool are you using during this?

Do you have to enter a larger radius of tool because of movement in tool during the ultra-sonic cutting?


Those are my questions,
Thanks,
Scott

 

[DMC]

Is that a "yes" to all the above?

no

 

[k2 Ceramic Studio]

Hi, we used the emax blocks about 3 years ago and did a trial for Sheffield university on how the KaVo system did compared to the inlab. found the stuff to be quite hard work, seems to take an age to mill on our system, I know some are very fast, but not ours, gave up in the end and just pressed all our emax, also a cost issue think at the time it was more expensive to buy the blocks to mill than it was to press so it was just not practical to mill a single unit veneer out of one cad block when I could press 4 veneers out of one ingot.

 

[Diadem Precision]

How often or what milling procedures get the ultra-sonic transducer turned on Mitch?

I'm guessing only roughing for ceramics? And, what type of tool are you using during this?

Do you have to enter a larger radius of tool because of movement in tool during the ultra-sonic cutting?


Those are my questions,
Thanks,
Scott

Scott,

the Roeders mills don't use ultrasonic technology. Milling is done using diamond tools at very high speeds while constantly cooled by a liquid coolant.
The mills self-calibrate during the process and they have an automatic tool changer.
As for the ultrasonic technology I don't know anybody milling e.max with it. E.max is pretty tough to mill and if not done properly can weaken the material.


Mitch

 

[Slipstream]

Core3d Centers have a number of DMGs certified to mill emax - remember Ivoclar must certify the machine and milling strategy if you are to use the brand.

 

[sml2010]

Hi to all friend

Thank you Mitch, ***, k2 Ceramic Studio, Colin McNair for your reply.

Please tell me witch Ceramic brand is good, and can use in CNC machines?
I don't have a Diadem machine, it is very strong. My machine is like Mach5 :

ICM Otomasyon - Products

Does you know any Ceramic material that i use in my CNC machine? or not? Or we must use only press method?


E.max Cad has only 130-150 Mpa strength and it equal Cast iron strength(130Mpa).

Why we can't machining it? how many is the spindle speed of Sirona machines for machining E.max Cad?

How about ZirCad? Can we use this material in other CNC machines? how many spindle speed must be use for machining Zirconia material?


Thank you

 

[paulg100]

"how many is the spindle speed of Sirona machines for machining E.max Cad"

Spindle speed for MCXL is 60,000rpm if i remember correctly.

 

[DMC]

need grinding strategy in your CAM software, NOT regular milling.

Need diamond tools.

need wet mill.

Need custom fixture to hold material.

Need employee who understands all of this. LOL

 

[DMC]

Oh yeah....need $$$!

 

[sml2010]

Thank you very much for answer

 

[JayH]

Grinding eMax really only takes a wet mill and the proper milling strategies. I was doing this on a Wieland 4820 using Powermill/Dentmill while at Issaquah. As has been already stated, the combination of time/cost/existing resources, it was decided to just keep on pressing the stuff.

Selling eMax machined like this takes, as Colin says, a certification by Ivoclar of the whole process (not just the machine.) We've just started this certification process with Ivoclar at NDX.

Unfortunately, what we can do technically doesn't always equal what we can do legally

 

[BobCDT]

Why mill e.max?
It fits better when pressed.
It cost less to press.
it's stronger when proessed.
There is a reason Ivoclar wants to control the milling process. If it is not milled under absolute ideal conditions, e.max looses much of it's strength when milled.
If you are milling e.max and have not been certified by Ivoclar you may be selling inferior restorations.
Why not take the path of least resistance?
Press it!!!

 

[Diadem Precision]

Why mill e.max?

One word: Convenience!

Bob, I agree that e.max can be pressed cheaper, it's slightly stronger (by almost 40 MPa) than e.max CAD.
But you're forgetting - like most lab owners do - to factor in the labor.
Properly trained - a technician using 3Shape for example - can scan/design 20 to 25 units of e.max in the first half of his shift, then adjust, crystallize, stain and glaze these units in the other half of the day.
Now - how many pressed e.max units can a technician do from start to finish?
This is where the difference lies. It's true, milling e.max has some limitations for now but look around you - everything is now about convenience.
We, with the help of technology are trying to make things easier for labs - so that they can process more units, faster and better with the same number of technicians. Why would you be looking at implementing a process that is more labor intensive now when the number of techs is on the decline, schools are barely putting any new graduates out.
Technology may not be ready for everything yet but it is the only way for a lab to survive in the future.

Mitch

 

[DMC]

vFX and Core3D have ultra-sonic DMG mills for eMax.
Now you know of a couple.

Scott,

the Roeders mills don't use ultrasonic technology. Milling is done using diamond tools at very high speeds while constantly cooled by a liquid coolant.
The mills self-calibrate during the process and they have an automatic tool changer.
As for the ultrasonic technology I don't know anybody milling e.max with it. E.max is pretty tough to mill and if not done properly can weaken the material.


Mitch

 

[Slipstream]

I would think your first step would be to to talk to Ivoclar and see what mills they have already certified, why reinvent the wheel, if you can find someone with the same mill as you have access to.

The early bird catches the worm but the second mouse gets the cheese.

 

[NEO]

Yes,there is a german milling system, for grinding and milling with UF technology.
and it can use up to 19 special diamond tools...