3Shape/3M scanner Shoot-Out

[paulg100]

***, the uk price was £5000 the last time i asked.

You need the dongle to be able to export the files, once again SIRONA=RIP OFF.

I guess there is no yearly fee for the scanner like 3shape etc but 5g's is still a heck of a lot just to export a file.

EDIT: I may have this wrong, i think the dongle is only for importing 3shape scan data, Not for exporting STL.

Can someone confirm that.

 

[DMC]

I'm telling ya I have no problem working with any sirona file.
no dongle needed.

That is confirmed. I have worked with my friends Blue cam without a dongle. We made things

 

[paulg100]

ok thats cool.

Id love to know how the fits compare to data from a "proper" bench top scanner.

Guess well never really know unless an independent shoot out is conducted with a control die and several market leading scanner/techs.

 

[user name]

ok thats cool.

Id love to know how the fits compare to data from a "proper" bench top scanner.

Guess well never really know unless an independent shoot out is conducted with a control die and several market leading scanner/techs.

That would be AWSOME!!! especially if the test die were real-world and less than ideal.

 

[AshBroughton]

Dental Scanner Fit???

This is a subjective comparison you are trying for here, in that the scanners at the moment dont have the software to plot a margin for you completely without modification so accuracy is usually based on the user.

I spend more time on my scan plotting than some but for zirc. copings they comeback and fit like a dream.

I have a nobel procera btw, I haven't heard anyone shedding light on this scanner, why not, have I missed something, you guys are all going bananas over 3m and 3 shape whats the deal here?

 

[patmo141]

Guess we'll never really know unless an independent shoot out is conducted with a control die and several market leading scanner/techs.

Would an Ivorine dentoform tooth be a fine "master die"? I have a ton of them and I could prep a few different ones and then you guys could mail them around and scan them. This kind of shootout would be awesome. It's not real world but it would be a step in the right direction with the same object scanned by all different machines. I think Ivorine has enough radioopacity to make it CT scan-able too. I'll snap an x-ray of one tomorrow to double check. Also, I still think the quarter would be an awesome control die as per Scott's idea.

-Patrick

 

[DMC]

Dental Scanner Fit???

This is a subjective comparison you are trying for here, in that the scanners at the moment dont have the software to plot a margin for you completely without modification so accuracy is usually based on the user.

I spend more time on my scan plotting than some but for zirc. copings they comeback and fit like a dream.

I have a nobel procera btw, I haven't heard anyone shedding light on this scanner, why not, have I missed something, you guys are all going bananas over 3m and 3 shape whats the deal here?

Hmmm, Not too sure what you are saying. Have you played with anyother scanners recently?

Send me a scan so I can make fun of it! LOL (just kidding, but not really?)
We are actually measuring the distance between data points, the total number of data points and polys. That's how I can tell what I'm looking at.
No guessing needed! Send me an encrypted Nobel scan file and I will put it under my microscope. You will be surprised to find out that your scan is not within the required tolerences for Dentistry! (Data points farther than 25uM apart.)

I use non-Dental Industrial CAD software to get my info.

 

[DMC]

Would an Ivorine dentoform tooth be a fine "master die"? I have a ton of them and I could prep a few different ones and then you guys could mail them around and scan them. This kind of shootout would be awesome. It's not real world but it would be a step in the right direction with the same object scanned by all different machines. I think Ivorine has enough radioopacity to make it CT scan-able too. I'll snap an x-ray of one tomorrow to double check. Also, I still think the quarter would be an awesome control die as per Scott's idea.

-Patrick

My Dad taught Crown and Bridge, brother is Dentist, other Brother married a Dentist, and I'm in a building with Thirty Dentists. LOL

I have Ivorine teeth coming out of my a5s! The surface is poor for scanning.
We need flat surface, like die stone. Not Gloss or shiny. A very rough die will work just fine. One with retention grooves and irregular shapes.

We can just measure total data points and also measure distance between Two points at the margin.

Scott

 

[patmo141]

"the surface is poor for scanning." Yeah, well, two words... "Opti Spray"

It's good for scanning shiny wet surfaces covered in blood and saliva. Margins come out perfect e'ry time. Plus, with the time savings...can you say "Practice Builder"



Pat....erson Punch....
I mean, Patrick

 

[DMC]

Most of us Lab guys in the US use Magnaflux Spot Check.
Very very fine talc in a big spray can for $10 or so.

The Dental stuff is too expensive and not as good.

This would only throw in another variable that may skew the results.

 

[patmo141]

In all seriousness though...

1. aren't some of the scanners going to have to powder our master die anyway if we want to test the intra oral ones on the exact same object that we are testing the lab ones with.

2. would a stone model handle being mailed around or are we thinking of making multiple copies/impressions (I think that would introduce more error)

3. If sand blasted, would that give an ivorine surface enough micro texture to scan? (any prepped surface is going to be fairly rough unless you come back in with a really fine diamond. I'v seen the grooves from a coarse bur on CEREC red cam scans in an office I shadowed in)

4. I know you can scan stone w/ the intraoral ones so maybe a master stone model is the best route.

Thoughts?

-P

 

[DMC]

Stone.
Hard die stone.

Oral scanners will not need spray, as you stated.

I have a software engineer for Three days in my lab.
He will be here in Two hours. Flew here from Italy!

Bringing a couple other guys with him, a German and an American.
We are playing with many things, and this will kinda tie-in.

 

[JohnWilson]

Can't you use like a master die? I know whipmix has one to calibrate investment/stone ratios as it relates to expansion

Of course it is metal but it could be duplicated and used for such a test.

Of course we all want a "perfect scan" and like Scott said file size on scans across different platforms differ so widely that they has to be huge differences or the software that puts the polys together are more complicated than others.

Do scan files have other software embedded in them or is a scan all raw data from the scan?

 

[Mark Jackson]

Most of us Lab guys in the US use Magnaflux Spot Check.
Very very fine talc in a big spray can for $10 or so.

Scott, have you read the MSDS on that spray?

Pure aerosol ASBESTOS.

 

[araucaria]

Scott, have you read the MSDS on that spray?

Pure aerosol ASBESTOS.

unbelievable that something so hazardous is on general sale !!
and in aerosol form !!! cancel the pension!
is this for real?

 

[Mark Jackson]

We have now added two more 3Shape scanners. We have a dedicated scanning department, where all the cases come out of the model room after die trimming. They get scanned and put into a folder for the designers, and the pans moved through usually within an hour or two.

Those technicians just design and load them into Delcam Mill where they are nested for milling by other technicians. Having dedicated scanning stations and dedicated design stations has really pumped up throughput. Two guys in there are averaging about 130 units per day. Conversely, one technician with two scanners can actually do 11.2 units per hour, versus 8.1 for one tech with one scanner. that includes opposing models etc.

We have the design step down to 30 mouse clicks per unit.

 

[Mark Jackson]

Dental Scanner Fit???

This is a subjective comparison you are trying for here, in that the scanners at the moment dont have the software to plot a margin for you completely without modification so accuracy is usually based on the user.

I spend more time on my scan plotting than some but for zirc. copings they comeback and fit like a dream.

I have a nobel procera btw, I haven't heard anyone shedding light on this scanner, why not, have I missed something, you guys are all going bananas over 3m and 3 shape whats the deal here?

The best scanner for you is the one that your techncians like to work with, and that has high throughput. I also want good technician support. I want a replacement scanner here in 24 hours if mine has a problem and i want to have a rep here in 48 hours max.

That narrows it down to three companies for me (in my area):

3Shape, Procera and 3M.

Of those three, only one is open source, so that pretty much rules out the others. 3Shape wins for us, though I do have all three.....but again, regardless of what anyone says, the scanner you have will do a very fine job for most small labs.

 

[Mountain Goat]

Scott, have you read the MSDS on that spray?

Pure aerosol ASBESTOS.

Yikes

 

[patmo141]

Scott, have you read the MSDS on that spray?

Pure aerosol ASBESTOS.

I'm a little slow today...joke?

 

[DMC]

It's only Talc powder and alchohol. Gheez.

Mark, you are one paranoid mother-fer! Chill-out on the Humble cronic stuff. I think you need a warning or caution sign as your avatar. LOL

http://www.magnaflux.com/Portals/0/MSDS/Liquid Penetrant/en/Spotcheck~reg_Developer_SKD-S2.pdf

TOXICOLOGICAL INFORMATION
Carcinogenicity: Contains no known or suspected carcinogens listed with OSHA, IARC, NTP, or ACGIH.
Threshold limit value (Bulk): 400 ppm
WHMIS information (Canada): According to available information, the ingredients have not been found to show reproductive toxicity,
teratogenicity, mutagenicity, skin sensitization, or synergistic toxic effects with other materials