3 Shape Scanner

[Toast]

Charles, I've been looking into the 3shape scanner also. Just wondering what you are doing with it, copings, full contour, split scans, etc. How do you like the software, is it pretty fast and easy after you get used to it? I'm thinking I'll use it for just about everything in the lab. The demos on youtube are pretty amazing.

Also, who did you purchase your unit from, would you recommend them? Thanks for any help

 

[charles007]

Toast, haven't bought a 3shape scanner for my mom and pop lab yet. I'm trying to decide between 3 different brands of milling machine to buy, or should I even get into the milling business with all the yearly updates to buy and maintenance agreement.. If I buy a miller, I will most likely buy 3shape, if I only buy a scanner, 3M might be a better scanner, but 3shape is winning the software race this year.
I've been researching cad/cam equipment for what seems a lifetime this past year +...... This technology is changing so fast, its hard to figure out what to buy, what company to buy from, what company will still be around in the near future, and who has the best service and tech help after purchasing.

I'm looking forward in making full contoured zir on many posterior crowns-bridges and giving a lifetime warranty, use the newer more translucent full contoured zirconia that's coming out soon, using full contour pressed to zir with buccal and facial limited cutbacks to veneer, pressed to zir -full contour, full contoured and limited cutbacks coping to press emax, cast for gold, and implants.
My lab will be doing all of this very soon with a scanner or inhouse cad/cam.

I think all labs will have a scanner with-in the next 5 years or less, or they won't be able to compete in price,speed and materials.

When you read that printers can make models, spray porcelain, and milling machines can mill zir, wax, resin, and metal, fewer hands will are needed to make a crown. To me, the hand writing is already on the wall, and continually being repainted with newer, faster and better technology every year.
Older techs like me that have great insight on what a finished crown should look like should adapt to a computer screen very fast, and will be the new kid-digital lab on the block that makes crowns better,faster, cheaper and always consistent.
All labs will soon need a scanner to stay in business.

I'm buying my expensive ticket to this cad/cam train this year. History is being made now in this new era of what is called the new digital cad/cam lab.

 

[ceasor]

Charles, I think the choose of the milling machine is not very difficult, because the CAM tech is popular now. What you need to care about is the milling software. The good milling software can generate good NC code which can cut down your cost on milling time and cutting tool wear. Even you can just use a 4-axis machine to finish your job that will save a lot of money. Of course, the 5-axis machine is a better long term investment.
BTW, would you like to share your story of how you create your mom and pop lab? I think it is very interesting.

 

[charles007]

Charles, I think the choose of the milling machine is not very difficult, because the CAM tech is popular now. What you need to care about is the milling software. The good milling software can generate good NC code which can cut down your cost on milling time and cutting tool wear. Even you can just use a 4-axis machine to finish your job that will save a lot of money. Of course, the 5-axis machine is a better long term investment.
BTW, would you like to share your story of how you create your mom and pop lab? I think it is very interesting.

Ceasor, I'm in the total dark about milling software.
Mom and pop lab, evolved into this, nothing really exciting to write about.
Was told you need 5 axis for implants .

Charles

 

[DMC]

DelCam software has the best milling templates (milling strategies)

FAST, works with any CNC on the planet almost. Very complex series of swirly-cuts, tool changes, and cutting. Almost everything is considered.


Old Lava milling strategy was cutting like a typewriter, drop down, then just cutting left to right again. The back-pass did not use the rotation of the tool properly, and large chunks of Zr flew off. Tool life sucked, we had chips and failures that had to be sent back to 3M.

We went through many many trials before the using the current template, which Germany decided to give us eight years after the introduction of the Lava stuff. Now we have zero chipping and cracking. No more typewrite cutting. Now it's a very complex series of movements, like my avatar. I must say, 3M has once again stepped up a notch and is evolving to keep up/surpass the competition.

As stated, the CAM software is going to make the $$, just as much as the mill itself!

Openmind is another great company! This has nothing to do with scanning or design software....just the CAM software. It takes the stl file and converts it to g-code (NC commands? Numerical control) the language the mills need to move.

 

[Slipstream]

if I only buy a scanner, 3M might be a better scanner, but 3shape is winning the software race this year.

That would seem to be true about the software, remember if you buy a Lava scanner, you are stuck with Lava products - a 3shape will allow you to produce castable resin, OEM Zirconia, sintered NP etc.

You will also be able to order Lava Zirconium from your 3Shape design for the dentists who prefer a branded product.

Colin

 

[DMC]

no Colin. Where have you been?

3M has allowed export of the scan to both 3Shape and Dental Wings software. The Dental Wing export is around two years old now, and the 3Shape export is new this year. Already done. You can make anything you want. Do you wanna see an stl output from my 3M scanner? That's about as open as it gets. 3M has millable wax, and allows export to many different rapid-prototype machines. Thats waaay old news. We can export to SLS laser sintering as well. I make everything on a 3M scanner. Really don't need much else IMO. Now 3M has a very nice generic Zirconia at a great price.

Charles is absolutly correct. I can put a 3Shape scanner inside a 3M scanner and scan it. Thats how big the ST scanner is. The 3M ST Lava scanner is about five times more accurate than a 3Shape scanner. That's the real truth my friend.

Stienbichler of Germany is one of the, if not the best scanning manuf. on the planet (that's who makes the 3M unit). 3M scanner is three feet tall and 100lbs of German technology. Full of the best components around. Now go look at your little five pound plastic box with plastic gears and micky-mouse data output.

.

Ok, 3Shape has fourty software engineers. That's what is keeping threm alive.

 

[rkm rdt]

There still seems to be one thing all these new systems have trouble making.

Profit.

 

[DMC]

tell me about it!

We have quadroupled our business every year now using this stuff.

I would suggest not getting involved. The longer you wait the better.(for me)

 

[charles007]

Well said Scott.

Can you tell us about the new upcoming updates that the ST scanner will get ?
Will that level out the playing field for 3M ?
What's the skinny about the old-new table top 3M miller ?

 

[alan2423]

25k is ok. But do I need to buy their milling machine? In fact, I just want a scanner.
I am also interested in Imetric iscan D101 with DelCam system(Do you know it?). And D640 is ok too. But I don't know whether they still sell the old style like D640.

hey you dont have to buy thier milling machine and if you check with 0ther distributors you can find a better price sometimes

 

[Slipstream]

Never needed to output anything other than Lava from the 3M scanners, but I am sure you are correct. What we can do in the next few weeks is import an stl onto the 3m system to produce Lava that was scanned and designed on a 3Shape set up.

In the UK the Essential is only available to one milling center (who only have one machine) and is being sold direct to the labs by 3M , using the centre as the fulfillment point.

In effect 3M have launched in competition against the milling centres who have put their $ up and bought the machines, the labs who did not support Lava now have a cheap 3M supported offering and the people like us with multiple Lava mills are cut from the deal, which explains the amount of unbranded zirconium now about.

Core Zirconium anyone?

Colin

Going rate in the UK is now £29 per unit for Zirconium (equates to $40)

 

[DMC]

Colin, the 3M Lava systems will not accept an stl file, either now, or in the near future.

What it does accept is called a ULDC (Universal Lava Design C???),which is a 3M specific encryped file that the 3Shape and Dental Wings can now export. This format also gets exported from C.O.S. scans and can be accepted into all three systems.

Sorry, but let's get this right.

I'm pretty sure most of the milling centers in the US can get Essential. Want some?

 

[DMC]

...
In the UK the Essential is only available to one milling center (who only have one machine) and is being sold direct to the labs by 3M , using the centre as the fulfillment point.

In effect 3M have launched in competition against the milling centres who have put their $ up and bought the machines [COLOR="Red[I][B]"](What machines are you talking about?)[/B][/COLOR], the labs who did not support Lava now have a cheap 3M supported offering and the people like us with multiple Lava mills are cut from the deal, which explains the amount of unbranded zirconium now about.[/I] (That explination makes my head hurt. You lost me there??)
Colin

Scott

 

[Hal2a]

Scott,

You talk about how accurate the 3M scanner is and I agree that lava is a great product. But doesn't the 3M scanner need everything it scans to be covered in a scanning powder. As 3 shape scans directly against the die stone wouldn't this close the gap in accuracy?

 

[Slipstream]

We can buy the blocks but cannot call it Essential - in the UK that can only be supplied by 1 nominated milling centre. All the other centres who own Lava mills would have to buy the finished units from a competitor in order to sell it as Essential.

I guess it will come down to whether 3M can pursuade the dentists to specify Essential by name, or whether the individual labs can talk their dentist out of it and accept unbranded Zirconia to hit the price point required. My money would be on the labs who have regular daily contact with their dentists winning this one, but it will require some sales skill to outsell 3M.

Colin

 

[DMC]

Scott,

You talk about how accurate the 3M scanner is and I agree that lava is a great product. But doesn't the 3M scanner need everything it scans to be covered in a scanning powder. As 3 shape scans directly against the die stone wouldn't this close the gap in accuracy?

no.
same/same
We scan all stone with nothing. If a lab adds shiny wax, or cyanoacrylate, or if the target is made of metal or shiny Zirconia.....we spray with 60% coverage. I have a large Air-Brush paint booth in my scanning room. We just aim at the wall and spray. Takes .02 sec. What's the big deal? Same thing goes for laser scanners. They all have a regular camera that does not like shiny objects. The dust is ultra refined Talc powder. It just falls right off after we are finished. Best product is SpotCheck by Magnaflux. I buy at Grainger or other Industrial supplier. It's for checking for cracks in welds.

2025 Graphic Arts Spray Booth, Airbrush Spray Booths -- Artograph, Inc
$9 a can (big can).

Scott

 

[JohnWilson]

no.
same/same
We scan all stone with nothing. If a lab adds shiny wax, or cyanoacrylate, or if the target is made of metal or shiny Zirconia.....we spray with 60% coverage. I have a large Air-Brush paint booth in my scanning room. We just aim at the wall and spray. Takes .02 sec. What's the big deal? Same thing goes for laser scanners. They all have a regular camera that does not like shiny objects. The dust is ultra refined Talc powder. It just falls right off after we are finished. Best product is SpotCheck by Magnaflux. I buy at Grainger or other Industrial supplier. It's for checking for cracks in welds.

2025 Graphic Arts Spray Booth, Airbrush Spray Booths -- Artograph, Inc
$9 a can (big can).

Scott

We use this as well but I think the last can I paid a whopping $15 bucks for it.

Lasts forever.

 

[DMC]

We use this as well but I think the last can I paid a whopping $15 bucks for it.

Lasts forever.

Order a bigger quantity! Pass it out to your friends at partys.


I use to think it was toxic, but it is not. Thank God. So we have one safe material out of a thousand! HA

 

[rabia]

3shapes doesn't sell milling machines.......

i wonder what milling machine should i go for then that will be a good match with 3shape, i know its an open system but what would you suggest