Ivoclar d.sign

dynamisoz

dynamisoz

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Hi i am looking into some porcelain systems.. and got very interested in d.sign porcelain.

It seems like a lot of ppl here uses inline, but have not seen dsign get mentioned much.

How is this porcelain?.. in terms of handling and shrinkage, and shade matching?.. if you have pics i would love to see them too.
 
AGV

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d-sign is a b1ctch, many problems concerning acomodation with metal, cracks, srinkage...But if you solve this problems, is a very very beautiful porcelain, and a gentle with antagonist. Everytime i changed to another porcelains, my accounts have noticed a reduction of esthetic. I'm not a "superhighestheticlab", just body and enamel , and d-sign accomplish perfectly for me.
 
CatamountRob

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I don't really find it difficult to work with but, I stick with the d.sign alloys, except I've switched from d.sign 91 to Evolution Lite for a white, high Nobel alloy with no issues.
Don't try to opaque all in one firing and dust your 2nd opaque firing with margin porcelain.
After that I do a firing, usually with Deep dentin and Cervical dentin or Occlusal dentin. That modifies the areas I want modified and reduces the amount of porcelain I will need in the next firing. On bridges, I fire a ring of darker porcelain at the connections. On Anteriors, I would add whatever I wanted to see under the incisals at this stage, as in, mammalons and clear or neutral areas.
Lastly, I fire the body porcelain and whatever combination of incisals choose.
I have no idea how to explain this but, there is less steam tearing if its still damp when you start the firing cycle. If you leave it until its really dry, it will tear more when you fire it.
Yes d.sign shrinks, but you can learn to manage it. I don't use build-up liquid anymore, just water.
 
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TheLabGuy

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I use d.Sign, its like my woman most days...you caress it, hold it just right, cuddle with it and with any luck you'll hit a home run :) Other days, it's a finicky pain in the ass!!!
 
rkm rdt

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You may want to check his birth certificate.:eek:
 
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charles007

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Hi i am looking into some porcelain systems.. and got very interested in d.sign porcelain.

It seems like a lot of ppl here uses inline, but have not seen dsign get mentioned much.

How is this porcelain?.. in terms of handling and shrinkage, and shade matching?.. if you have pics i would love to see them too.

1. HANDLING: Great handling, stacks as well if not much better than any other porcelain on the market.
2. SHRINKAGE: I think dSign is a Female Porcelain and it can't seem to mind how much or which way to shrink... lol just kidding..
I only had 2 problems with Dsign..(2 shrinkage problems) 1. Dentin would shrink up in 1 spot on the margin and I could not solve that problem. If you don't mind sprinkling margin powder around the margins as said above, this will prevent the shrinkage. (I didn't like the idea of the extra step sprinkle, so I switched porcelain.) 2. Add on's in the embrasures can be problems as is many high-end fine grain porcelains.
3. SHADE MATCHING : Shades are prefect out of the bottle if you use Deep Dentin, and no staining is needed to match the shade guide. I never used without using Deep Dentin !

Don't use dSign now but I think its a very beautiful & nicest looking porcelain on the market, plus you have the same type of powders to use with emax. I agree your doctors will notice a difference with dSign.
An average tech can use dSign using a 3 or 4 powder technique and see a huge difference compared to other porcelains, I believe ! Must say some techs have a hell of a time using dsign and I think some of the problems are related to poor training and the other half directly related to the makeup of dSign porcelain. THERE is an learning curve using Dsign !! I never had occlusal cracking- tearing, exploding crown types of problems, or checking. The other older issue with dsign is using a matching CTE alloy. I used Dsign 59 and never had a hint of checking. Ivoclar makes a cheaper alternative, dsign 53, but you could have problems with less than idea frames on large bridges with this higher CTE alloy. Both D53 and 59 are Pd/Ag
In my opinion this porcelain stands out above other porcelains because of the rich Deep Dentin. The DD powder makes the shades pop and you see the shades below the surface of the layered porcelain.
InLine is a cheaper version of dSign but not in the same class unless you are a higher end tech that uses many powders. (I made that statement after making about 10 units with a free starter kit of InLine.) Take this opinion with a grain of salt !
A third alternative is GC which is very similar to dSign, but less technique sensitive. Must say GC is more so of an multi-powder technique porcelain, but not required.
Last alternative in no special order is Creation porcelain. Stacks very well, high chroma like Dsign and GC, and has very accurate shades, but less technique sensitive than Dsign.
Ok, you want to change to a nicer porcelain and see a difference on your first crown, choose your weapon, Dsign, Creation or GC, these are the best of the best porcelains I believe.
If you want a simple to use out of the bottle porcelain, zero technique issues, that can match any of the above porcelains, Noritake is an Best Buy porcelain.

btw: Should you order Dsign porcelain, ask your Ivoclar rep to stop by your lab with your ordered kit to spend a few hours training you on the do's and don't's of using Dsign...
 
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Are folks still doing pfms?
 
rkm rdt

rkm rdt

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Are folks still using exocad?
 
Andrew Priddy

Andrew Priddy

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inline hands down
d.sign shrinks and tears... contact a rep, get a sample, try it
 
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charles007

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Still getting old school pfms :arghh:........... but I am enjoying stacking more porcelain.. :)

Can't wait for the next new Exocad Update Party
 
kimba

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I have used design for a while now and I love it.
I never really had the shrinkage problems that I had and still have heard.
When I first started using it I did find trhat the enamels seemed to be quite opaque, but that was rectified by using thinner layers than I had been using.

Like any porcelain there is a technique learning curve, now I will never change
 
Mrs.galfriday

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I never had problems with d.sign, but other techs in the same lab did. It is technique sensitive though I could not decipher why mine were okay... Condense in the tray, not the hand? I used both spatula and brush, fairly wet with the special liquid.
 
CreDes

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2 firings of opaque, wash firing of deep dentin or dentine, embrasure bake for bridges and I let mine dry out before entering the oven. I have heard others keep it wet? This works for me and it looks very good in the mouth.
 
dynamisoz

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I understand there will be learning curves when switching porcelain system. Also i will be ordering alloys from ivoclar thats compatible with dsign, so hopefully tht will help with tearing problems. I think my mind is pretty set with this porcelain. I will have to try a starter set, and will go from there.
 

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