Restorations Du Jour

[Al.]

Just wish it was slow in spring instead of dead of winter when can't do anything outside

 

[JohnWilson]

How are you ever slow with your Talent Al, I would think by now with your internet exposure you could schedule as much work as you could want to do.

We bought more lab pans last week which is normally the kiss of death but its been very busy for us, feeling very blessed.

Are you going to use that as a tie tack in Chicago? Its amazing!

 

[adamb4321]

Beautiful work as always Al. When you charge the Dr for E.Max layered with the GC porcelain what do you describe it as?

 

[Al.]

I don't know The porc isn't out yet.

But im sure ill bill as emax or mabey emax on steroids.

What do you bill Zirconia crowns as ?
What do you bill Zir crowns layered with Noritake as ?
What do you bill Zir crowns layered with Ceram as ?

 

[Al.]

If emax is a trademark name and can only be used if it is 100% Ivoclar than a different name.

Problem with ceram is it is made to be used on both LD and Zir. So it has some issues.

Like constant and excess shrinking.

And not holding form for 2 and 3rd bakes, and graying.

And clarity. The window between slight underfiring and porous and unclear porc and pitted surface, and over firing and glassy and loss of shape is very narrow.

I almost always have to over fire ceram to get clarity.
I think Brix teaches that he adds low fusing or add on porc to his final bake to drop the final bake temp and get clarity and a smooth surface.

Li Si is made specifically to be layered on LD, it was NOT developed to be layered on both LD and Zir, so they could correct these problems.

My test kit I made about 50 units but all demo stuff. 42 of those full teeth fully layered and with about 10 bakes.

I did layer incisal only on one FMR Emax case.
Was hamstrung because only had 2 shades. A2 and 3 and a couple of incisals, clear, 2 inside powders one opal incisal and one cervical orange.

LOL can't do alot in the USA with only A2 and 3 when most want B1 and lighter.

 

[Al.]

I strongly dislike ceram incisals.

They grey emax so fast. That is why I end up using so much OE3 to try to counter the grey.

 

[Al.]

I don't even know why in the hell they recommend TI 1 incisal for the lighter Vita shades.
It gives them the grey sickness.

 

[adamb4321]

I'm not a huge fan of e.max ceram for all of the reasons you have listed.

Good point about the billing, I don't specify what the layering porcelain is. But E.max is a brand/trade mark.

Interestingly my GC rep led me to believe that the Li Si porcelain could be used on Zr too.... I'll have to grill him about it next time he comes in.

 

[NicelyMKV]

I built the same unit with GC over Zr and Ceram over Zr. Using as close to the same modifiers etc within each kit. The Ceram is dead as hell and grey compared to the GC Zr. I can't wait for the LD version of GC...... And zublers LD ingots

 

[Al.]

I'm not a huge fan of e.max ceram for all of the reasons you have listed.

Good point about the billing, I don't specify what the layering porcelain is. But E.max is a brand/trade mark.

Interestingly my GC rep led me to believe that the Li Si porcelain could be used on Zr too.... I'll have to grill him about it next time he comes in.

Well they told me it could be used with both but not recommended because it is technique sensitive because Li Si was developed to be used specifically for LD and not both.
They would have had to make changes to be used on both flawlessly.

I want to see if Oe1 and Oe3 can be used with LiSi because I love those powders.
I don't know why not but Ill see, if Europe will ever send some more to the US.
All the trial kits are used up here.

I have a little left but not much clear and CT 23.

 

[Al.]

Want drives me crazy about ceram is I can put a anterior crown in the oven for a 2nd bake and it comes out shorter !!!!!

That happens ALOT. It makes me think I am going crazy !!
I say to myself I thought the crown was the same length before I put it in the oven but now it's shorter. Am I seeing things !!!!
But it happens so often.
So what I have had to do is make sure the crowns are long and them shorten them just before glaze.

Don't get me wrong I'm not a Ivoclar or ceram hater. I've been using it since it first came out. I have made thousands of beautiful crowns and have learned to work around the flaws with out bitching.

I just think this is better handling prettier and will be a more complete kit.
I think Ivoclar has abandoned their layering stuff for milled and press and stain technology like the multi ingots and their milling center.
And like so many other big companies seem to be leaning toward becoming competitors against labs by pushing products for chair side restorations to be made easier and faster and cheaper. Some of the things their sponsored speakers have said at dental meetings are NOT lab friendly !

 

[RileyS]

I've been wondering if a lot of you GC guys feel less enthused with GC since they've entered the chair side milling material game? I don't use their stuff but always felt they were a 110% lab focused co. So Even I felt bugged by it when I saw their new chair side blocks

 

[Al.]

Riley most companies clinical divisions are huge compared to the lab side probably 80 to 90% clinical then the small lab side . don't know about Noratake or Kuralay ?

Thank goodness they aren't good at making crowns just the materials but with densply having a huge lab and now Ivoclar with their big milling center our toes are getting stepped on.
I think having a milling center for a private lab is tough now???? Competing with milti million dollar companies making frames ??

 

[sidesh0wb0b]

I've been wondering if a lot of you GC guys feel less enthused with GC since they've entered the chair side milling material game? I don't use their stuff but always felt they were a 110% lab focused co. So Even I felt bugged by it when I saw their new chair side blocks

i have yet to read on that aspect of things very much. still love GC products, and if they position themselves properly i guess i dont have an issue with it. theres a market for chairside stuff as well as lab stuff, cant blame a business for wanting to make money, thats the point afterall.

 

[Al.]

Yeah and don't take what I say as gospel my wife tells me I'm an opinionated as* hole that never listens.

 

[Al.]

LOL my son says if you want to know the truth "Google it ".

 

[charles007]

[QUOTE="Al.,
Thank goodness they aren't good at making crowns just the materials but with densply having a huge lab and now Ivoclar with their big milling center our toes are getting stepped on.
I think having a milling center for a private lab is tough now???? Competing with milti million dollar companies making frames ??[/QUOTE]

Al at this time every milling lab I've used has had problems with quality, some more so than others. The Worst are the large milling labs who put out numbers.
The very best milling labs are the smaller labs and dln members, that take on small accounts like me..

 

[Al.]

[QUOTE="Al.,
Thank goodness they aren't good at making crowns just the materials but with densply having a huge lab and now Ivoclar with their big milling center our toes are getting stepped on.
I think having a milling center for a private lab is tough now???? Competing with milti million dollar companies making frames ??

Al at this time every milling lab I've used has had problems with quality, some more so than others. The Worst are the large milling labs who put out numbers.
The very best milling labs are the smaller labs and dln members, that take on small accounts like me..[/QUOTE]
Well that's good to know. Ive only used Tyler and Jason Nicely both awesome !!!!!! So my experience's are limited and with only great results.

 

[Mrs.galfriday]

A web site advertised a very elaborate full upper implant case complete with step by step instructions 'written' by the owner. We doubt this w as an in-house offering as their milled wax was poor quality.

 

[Drizzt]

Al , I might have some LiSi soon !! I will let you know what I think of it ! I have some LD frames collecting dust somewhere !