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Pro and Con: Cold & Thermoplastic Polymerization
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<blockquote data-quote="drm313mac" data-source="post: 50578" data-attributes="member: 5830"><p>AJEL,</p><p></p><p><span style="color: Red">Well Dr</span></p><p>First, my dame is David. When I taught college classes (fun stuff like calculus),I would begin each semester with "feel free to call me David. Doc and dr are okay, and anything else you want to call me, it must be outside of class," setting the stage for an informal setting.</p><p>Therefore, I am not your doctor, and so you need not address me as such. In the ancient Greek, "doctor" means teacher and healer, which is what I am in the clinical setting, but here, in the lab tech forums, am I not the student and you the teacher?</p><p>[No, I will not call you doctor]lol</p><p></p><p><span style="color: Red">Well Dr I start 0600 and have been working till 0200 for several months now. I took off 1/2 day this Sunday to catch a service.</span></p><p>We will open at 8, and close at 8, Mon - Sat. The extended hours are for those that are working, so they do not have to take off work. I will arrive by 0745 and depart about 2000 hours.</p><p><span style="color: Red">Sunday to catch a service</span> I expect you mean Christian church service?</p><p></p><p><span style="color: Red">If you pull a technician off the bench to look at every little patient complaint, your production will show it.</span></p><p>My intent, the technician that works on that case should be with that patient each time that patient is in the office for that one case. For minor adjustments not so much, but I am speaking of the visits prior to the denture being delivered. Do you not know, at least as well as I, how to perform the wax try-in? If anything, it is you who do not need me when chair-side.</p><p></p><p><span style="color: Red">I have the Nevin</span></p><p>Model 5400? How do you (really) like it? What are its' quirks, if any, other than cost?</p><p></p><p>Per the Nevin as well as the Astron, are these units both cold cure as well as heat, by heating the water (I presume)? My real question is, can these be used for the thermoplastics? If the mechanism is by heating the water as compared to only the flask, is not the temperature limited to the maximum temperature of the water?</p><p>[You may assume by now I do not know a whole lot about how these machines work]</p><p></p><p><span style="color: Red">Denplus</span></p><p>Impact-20? Impact-Plus? DP97? Can the Dimetharylaate ethylene glycol activator work on other acrylics, such as Diamond D, or is it limited to Denplus?</p><p></p><p>Yes, I was planning on purchasing the TCS unit, and as you stated, not as the primary producer but for repairs. Another technician had made the same suggestion.</p><p></p><p><span style="color: Red">I hope UR not intending to do that Colorado Same day denture, even a great tech has trouble making those right</span></p><p>From the book I used in dental school (still in print though a few editions later),Fixed Prosthodontics, pertaining to dentures, "no amount of hard relines may fix an incorrect bite." Meaning, these dentures are prefabricated to one of 5 arch sizes, the dentist (or tech) does the impressions then performs relines, as many as necessary to fit the patient to the denture. This is ass-backwards from what it should be, which is to fit the denture to the patient.</p><p>From a medical perspective, this is malpractice as it is rarely possible to make such a denture actually fit correctly.</p><p>From a legal perspective, this is malpractice as we are required to so inform the patient if the denture was a pre-fab, which this is.</p><p>Affordable Dentures offers several denture choices, none of which are worth a damn (the PA office I was in was such). There lowest cost denture (at least in the office I was in),their "Economy," is a prefab, and no, they are not telling their patients this, and no, seldom do any of these actually fit. They define a failure as them refunding the monies paid, about 12% of all cases, whereas I define a failure as the denture simply does not fit, is truly uncomfortable as a result of the denture and not the patient, or causes trauma to the tissues, and a few other reasons. Under such rules, more than 90% of all dentures that office made were failures.</p><p>That is pathetic. Therefore, no, I do not plan on using this One-Step denture. In my opinion, it is a joke, but unfortunately it is a joke being played on unsuspecting customers.</p><p></p><p>In Colorado, I do not know what brand of PMMA they were using, except that it was semi cold-cured and they complained that Lucitone-199 was far too expensive to use. In other words, the dentist purchased the really cheap stuff, cheap but durable teeth from China, and very low cost acrylic (also from China),which was shipped in 300 pound drums. This dentist had received his training at Kansas, and his dentures training in Missouri, at one of those $150 denture mills. His tech was very competent, so for her to produce what she did using the materials she had to work with, in my uneducated opinion says a lot for her skills. The cure was in a pressure pot, and upon removal from the pot the flasks were dropped in ice-water. I argued that this will cause micro-fractures and distortion from too rapid cooling, they argued that this makes de-flasking much easier.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="drm313mac, post: 50578, member: 5830"] AJEL, [COLOR="Red"]Well Dr[/COLOR] First, my dame is David. When I taught college classes (fun stuff like calculus),I would begin each semester with "feel free to call me David. Doc and dr are okay, and anything else you want to call me, it must be outside of class," setting the stage for an informal setting. Therefore, I am not your doctor, and so you need not address me as such. In the ancient Greek, "doctor" means teacher and healer, which is what I am in the clinical setting, but here, in the lab tech forums, am I not the student and you the teacher? [No, I will not call you doctor]lol [COLOR="Red"]Well Dr I start 0600 and have been working till 0200 for several months now. I took off 1/2 day this Sunday to catch a service.[/COLOR] We will open at 8, and close at 8, Mon - Sat. The extended hours are for those that are working, so they do not have to take off work. I will arrive by 0745 and depart about 2000 hours. [COLOR="Red"]Sunday to catch a service[/COLOR] I expect you mean Christian church service? [COLOR="Red"]If you pull a technician off the bench to look at every little patient complaint, your production will show it.[/COLOR] My intent, the technician that works on that case should be with that patient each time that patient is in the office for that one case. For minor adjustments not so much, but I am speaking of the visits prior to the denture being delivered. Do you not know, at least as well as I, how to perform the wax try-in? If anything, it is you who do not need me when chair-side. [COLOR="Red"]I have the Nevin[/COLOR] Model 5400? How do you (really) like it? What are its' quirks, if any, other than cost? Per the Nevin as well as the Astron, are these units both cold cure as well as heat, by heating the water (I presume)? My real question is, can these be used for the thermoplastics? If the mechanism is by heating the water as compared to only the flask, is not the temperature limited to the maximum temperature of the water? [You may assume by now I do not know a whole lot about how these machines work] [COLOR="Red"]Denplus[/COLOR] Impact-20? Impact-Plus? DP97? Can the Dimetharylaate ethylene glycol activator work on other acrylics, such as Diamond D, or is it limited to Denplus? Yes, I was planning on purchasing the TCS unit, and as you stated, not as the primary producer but for repairs. Another technician had made the same suggestion. [COLOR="Red"]I hope UR not intending to do that Colorado Same day denture, even a great tech has trouble making those right[/COLOR] From the book I used in dental school (still in print though a few editions later),Fixed Prosthodontics, pertaining to dentures, "no amount of hard relines may fix an incorrect bite." Meaning, these dentures are prefabricated to one of 5 arch sizes, the dentist (or tech) does the impressions then performs relines, as many as necessary to fit the patient to the denture. This is ass-backwards from what it should be, which is to fit the denture to the patient. From a medical perspective, this is malpractice as it is rarely possible to make such a denture actually fit correctly. From a legal perspective, this is malpractice as we are required to so inform the patient if the denture was a pre-fab, which this is. Affordable Dentures offers several denture choices, none of which are worth a damn (the PA office I was in was such). There lowest cost denture (at least in the office I was in),their "Economy," is a prefab, and no, they are not telling their patients this, and no, seldom do any of these actually fit. They define a failure as them refunding the monies paid, about 12% of all cases, whereas I define a failure as the denture simply does not fit, is truly uncomfortable as a result of the denture and not the patient, or causes trauma to the tissues, and a few other reasons. Under such rules, more than 90% of all dentures that office made were failures. That is pathetic. Therefore, no, I do not plan on using this One-Step denture. In my opinion, it is a joke, but unfortunately it is a joke being played on unsuspecting customers. In Colorado, I do not know what brand of PMMA they were using, except that it was semi cold-cured and they complained that Lucitone-199 was far too expensive to use. In other words, the dentist purchased the really cheap stuff, cheap but durable teeth from China, and very low cost acrylic (also from China),which was shipped in 300 pound drums. This dentist had received his training at Kansas, and his dentures training in Missouri, at one of those $150 denture mills. His tech was very competent, so for her to produce what she did using the materials she had to work with, in my uneducated opinion says a lot for her skills. The cure was in a pressure pot, and upon removal from the pot the flasks were dropped in ice-water. I argued that this will cause micro-fractures and distortion from too rapid cooling, they argued that this makes de-flasking much easier. [/QUOTE]
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