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Model side release agent for dentures - need suggestions
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<blockquote data-quote="altlab" data-source="post: 19189" data-attributes="member: 1612"><p><strong>To Mr. Kcdt et al seperator, foil on repairs</strong></p><p></p><p>Mr.KCDT:</p><p>In reply to:To: KCDT and the world:</p><p>Wow! welcome. Do you have any pictures of these tin foil techniques? I'm fascinated. I would love to learn a new trick! So are you burnishing your model during a repair, or are you burnishing it to the assembled pieces and then pouring against that? Inquiring minds want to know. Can you burnish against lab putty? </p><p></p><p>When you say "new trick" It makes me think "old dog" because I was doing this in 1975 - ouch!</p><p>Thank you sooo much for the seperator info.I do so hate to reinvent the wheel.It has been so long since I made dentures and I was sure the seperator tech had moved beyond the dinosaur spit I used and I appreciate the update. I have spent waaay too much time with walnut shell blasters trying to overcome the shortcomings of foil subs.</p><p></p><p>Tin foil tech. No pictures but when I can I will post some. </p><p>In the mean time: </p><p>Burnish before acrylic application.</p><p>Assumeing you have a stone model you get an oversize piece of foil off the roll and perhaps scrunch it up a bit near any edentulous areas so you have plenty to cover the tops of the teeth near the repair and the tissue floor. I usually do any repair with one piece. You only need to go about an 1/8 inch beyond the repair but further is fine.If you have to overlap pieces it is fine. If you over-extend the foil beyond the denture just tack it with wax at that point in a few places. Denture setup wax is by far the best. Stays put, is ok with warm water in repair pot.</p><p>Put a light coat of very hot setup wax at any seam or tear to seal the two-completely to prevent the repair acrylic from getting under it and finding the stone. If it does - no big deal. Hardly any setup wax at all is necessary and scrape it smooth if you get wild with the wax. Talking about 1mm or less seam. If you can see it it is too much. I finger-burnish the material before I seal it down from the center out and seal it. Then burnish with anything round (a discoid end works well) any where you are concerned for detail.Don't use the end of a brush-deposits paint.</p><p></p><p>Foil (or chemical release) does introduce a spatial error -but think about how small .001 is - beyond human eyesight and no greater than a chemical coat.</p><p></p><p>Don't get too wild with the burnish either side of an edentulous area (interproximal)as the foil will naturally eliminate most of the u-cut that locks in a repair.Why grind to fit? Surveying is best but not by much. Finally put a light coat of melted red boxing wax over the foil in the same location to correct any u-cut you see but also so that when you get ready to remove it off the model it will make the most perfect lube agent and not break the stone teeth. Since the red wax is on top of the foil, when you peel off the foil all the wax comes off too and your repair is slick and clean. The only tissue side adjustments will be where the foil stopped which takes about 2 seconds. In some cases I will lightly pumice the inside repair just because my repair looks better than the surrounding acrylic and one second of pumice evens out the polish.</p><p></p><p>This technique works for "shake/salt and pepper" repairs but If it is any size at all just mix in a dappen dish thick, apply a gob with a #7 and smooth it out with your finger applying light pressure and you will cut your time by 2/3. This also lets you set a missing tooth free-hand and elimnate a matrix. I set most single teeth this way including any metal reinforcement.</p><p></p><p>Yes you can burnish over silicone models (scratch the silicone where you want the wax to stick). Of course for many repairs the silicone is the release agent -and I always use a silicone model where I can. But if they send you some embeded partial in stone I always use the foil.Not from habit but to save time and hassle. Also there are plenty of repairs where you can't have any flexibility in the model and silicone will give you a warp with a rubber band. You can also mix release agents on the same repair such as foil under an anterior tooth on a flipper and the rest a chemical release agent.</p><p></p><p>Exotic repairs or new cases such as a swing-lock where you would like the acrylic to overlap acrylic when is closes (to hide the joint) are a nightmare with any other method but just beautiful this way.The .001 foil also provides just the right amount of play you need (like a door shim) but the gap is invisible to the eye. Same with either side of a tooth add-on.Also if you have to do a repair next to an unseated crown this is the way to go. Hader bars,any attachment with an u-cut, basically anything that would be a nightmare if a chemical release failed as in flushed away by the monomer.</p><p></p><p>If you are dealing with stone this technique eliminates sloppy foil substitute and the drying time and the lousy tissue surface encapsulating stone particles and the mess. "Foil substitute" it is but why substitute where the foil saves time. The surface next to the foil is smooth like glass.Also the setup on any repair takes about 5 minutes or less.</p><p>Aluminum foil is lousy compared to .001 foil. About $60 at Pearson and a roll will last for years.Thanks again for the help.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="altlab, post: 19189, member: 1612"] [b]To Mr. Kcdt et al seperator, foil on repairs[/b] Mr.KCDT: In reply to:To: KCDT and the world: Wow! welcome. Do you have any pictures of these tin foil techniques? I'm fascinated. I would love to learn a new trick! So are you burnishing your model during a repair, or are you burnishing it to the assembled pieces and then pouring against that? Inquiring minds want to know. Can you burnish against lab putty? When you say "new trick" It makes me think "old dog" because I was doing this in 1975 - ouch! Thank you sooo much for the seperator info.I do so hate to reinvent the wheel.It has been so long since I made dentures and I was sure the seperator tech had moved beyond the dinosaur spit I used and I appreciate the update. I have spent waaay too much time with walnut shell blasters trying to overcome the shortcomings of foil subs. Tin foil tech. No pictures but when I can I will post some. In the mean time: Burnish before acrylic application. Assumeing you have a stone model you get an oversize piece of foil off the roll and perhaps scrunch it up a bit near any edentulous areas so you have plenty to cover the tops of the teeth near the repair and the tissue floor. I usually do any repair with one piece. You only need to go about an 1/8 inch beyond the repair but further is fine.If you have to overlap pieces it is fine. If you over-extend the foil beyond the denture just tack it with wax at that point in a few places. Denture setup wax is by far the best. Stays put, is ok with warm water in repair pot. Put a light coat of very hot setup wax at any seam or tear to seal the two-completely to prevent the repair acrylic from getting under it and finding the stone. If it does - no big deal. Hardly any setup wax at all is necessary and scrape it smooth if you get wild with the wax. Talking about 1mm or less seam. If you can see it it is too much. I finger-burnish the material before I seal it down from the center out and seal it. Then burnish with anything round (a discoid end works well) any where you are concerned for detail.Don't use the end of a brush-deposits paint. Foil (or chemical release) does introduce a spatial error -but think about how small .001 is - beyond human eyesight and no greater than a chemical coat. Don't get too wild with the burnish either side of an edentulous area (interproximal)as the foil will naturally eliminate most of the u-cut that locks in a repair.Why grind to fit? Surveying is best but not by much. Finally put a light coat of melted red boxing wax over the foil in the same location to correct any u-cut you see but also so that when you get ready to remove it off the model it will make the most perfect lube agent and not break the stone teeth. Since the red wax is on top of the foil, when you peel off the foil all the wax comes off too and your repair is slick and clean. The only tissue side adjustments will be where the foil stopped which takes about 2 seconds. In some cases I will lightly pumice the inside repair just because my repair looks better than the surrounding acrylic and one second of pumice evens out the polish. This technique works for "shake/salt and pepper" repairs but If it is any size at all just mix in a dappen dish thick, apply a gob with a #7 and smooth it out with your finger applying light pressure and you will cut your time by 2/3. This also lets you set a missing tooth free-hand and elimnate a matrix. I set most single teeth this way including any metal reinforcement. Yes you can burnish over silicone models (scratch the silicone where you want the wax to stick). Of course for many repairs the silicone is the release agent -and I always use a silicone model where I can. But if they send you some embeded partial in stone I always use the foil.Not from habit but to save time and hassle. Also there are plenty of repairs where you can't have any flexibility in the model and silicone will give you a warp with a rubber band. You can also mix release agents on the same repair such as foil under an anterior tooth on a flipper and the rest a chemical release agent. Exotic repairs or new cases such as a swing-lock where you would like the acrylic to overlap acrylic when is closes (to hide the joint) are a nightmare with any other method but just beautiful this way.The .001 foil also provides just the right amount of play you need (like a door shim) but the gap is invisible to the eye. Same with either side of a tooth add-on.Also if you have to do a repair next to an unseated crown this is the way to go. Hader bars,any attachment with an u-cut, basically anything that would be a nightmare if a chemical release failed as in flushed away by the monomer. If you are dealing with stone this technique eliminates sloppy foil substitute and the drying time and the lousy tissue surface encapsulating stone particles and the mess. "Foil substitute" it is but why substitute where the foil saves time. The surface next to the foil is smooth like glass.Also the setup on any repair takes about 5 minutes or less. Aluminum foil is lousy compared to .001 foil. About $60 at Pearson and a roll will last for years.Thanks again for the help. [/QUOTE]
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Model side release agent for dentures - need suggestions
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