Help with CAD CAM

[ilsbadly]

Hi guys I know there is an abundance of information out there on scanners and milling machines and my mind is becoming somewhat twisted with the overload of differing factors that go into these machines to make them the 'best on the market today' so I want some of you guys to put it in simple terms for me, by saying get that one because it will do what you need and will not cost you a fortune and be obsolete within 2 minutes of me buying it.

It seems from my research that the contenders in the scanning world (software wise) are, 3Shape and Exocad, is there any others worth considering? I do like the look of the 3Shape but I have read mixed reviews and unless people have one, they don't seem to like them...

I am working in a lab that does implants and private crown and bridge work, so I would like a milling machine that is capable of milling custom Ti abutments, and clearly the scanner and software will have to be able to deal well with the design etc of the abutments.

The implant systems dealt with mainly consist of the Astra, and Ankylos range so they need to be compatible with this also.

Are people milling Co/Cr in house with any positive or negative results as a framework for porcelain build.

I've seen the Roland milling machine, that looks great however it doesn't do the Ti custom abutments

It also has to be available in the UK

 

[Drizzt]

Hi there ,

First of all , the best CAD CAM system is the one that suits your needs . With that being said , you should decide what you want to do with it , which you have done .

You said it correctly that Exocad and 3shape are the main players considering CAD . If you asked me I would go with exocad , it seems that it has gained the upper hand compared to 3shape as it is more ''open'' , cheaper , and you can choose from a great number of scanners to pair it with . Ι think the key work with Exocad is ''freedom'' .

On the other hand 3shape has a very nice software but there is a mandatory fee of 1500 euros I think that you have to pay evey year , otherwise the scanner is locked and you can't work unless you pay it .

Now for the milling machine , it has to do with how much you're willing to spend . There are many many milling machines to choose .

As for milling CrCo in house , I am doing it and the results are fantastic . I mill down to 0.35 mm , no special treatment after milling , I only apply a bonder , right now I am using Bredent's . And I am also milling custom abutments . Astra is not difficult , ankylos I haven't done it , but I think it will be more difficult .

 

[BobCDT]

From a personal and CAP perspective. Please note, CAP is a milling center that uses this stuff day and night. In addition we resell a lot of the equipment.
You are correct in you judgment of CAD. We have much more experience with 3Shape than Exocad. But, I think both are quite advanced and quite good. The Exocad solution will require scanner reasearch. There are about 20 to choose from. In scanners, generally speaking, you get what you pay for. If you are doing a lot of implant work I would check out the Imetric scanner. Howerver, if I had to do it all over I would still go with 3Shape.
We resell Roland mills and operate 4 DWX50s. They have been workhorses for us and produce the bulk of the work we are doing in wax, PMMA and zirconia. We are even able to mill full arch screw retained full contour zirconia cases accurately using the Roland mill. The market is now on the verge of many new desktop mills but we have no idea how they work as they have not been launched yet. If I were you I would probably go with a mill that has a track record.
We are milling CrCo and titanium very successfully in the Imes 450i. We are also milling titanium CLA's in this mill. For metals you need a more robust mill wet mill, not a Roland.
Depending on the amount of work you are producing it may be wise to by a dry mill for soft materials and a wet mill for e.max and metals. Generally speaking, your better off not going back and forth between wet milling and dry milling of zirconia.
In addition, from a business perspective the ROI do not require big numbers of units to work well.

 

[zero_zero]

...
It seems from my research that the contenders in the scanning world (software wise) are, 3Shape and Exocad, is there any others worth considering? I do like the look of the 3Shape but I have read mixed reviews and unless people have one, they don't seem to like them...
...

I have one and don't like it, 3shape won't move a finger for their end users, you're practically at the mercy of the resellers as far as support and licensing goes. They wanted me to pay 3200 euros for the yearly license ( very bottom basic single seat, no implant module etc. ),when questioned why such high fee, was told "that's our price"... Wanted to switch to a different reseller (who had fair prices and better support ),couldn't because these crooks wouldn't release my dongle. Fought for days with them, talked with everybody possible, 3shape didn't care at all... went through hell that's for sure. Till my lawyer found some stuff in the paper trail, gave them a quick call and my dongle got released within the hour...

 

[BobCDT]

The 3Shape business model is setup so the distributors are the first line of support. When distributors sign on they are aware of this. Unfortunately, like in most things there are good and bad providers. It sounds like either you didn't do your home work when purchasing. Or, were you looking for the least expensive distributor price.
As a 3Shape distributor, it's impossible to provide best support and cheapest system pricing. FYI, I have never herd of a distributor charging that much for the annual licensing fee. Glad you got your dongle switched.

 

[zero_zero]

I wasn't looking for the least expensive, I paid top dollar. Tried to do as mush research as possible, alas I was the first to buy in my circle of acquaintances so nobody could provide any info... 3shape directed me to these people, probably just looking at geographic proximity, all I got from them was a phone number. Beside there are not too many resellers in my neck of the woods, so they're not too keen to offer competitive prices.

 

[BobCDT]

Just out of curiosity, where are you from? Who was the reseller?

 

[zero_zero]

Just out of curiosity, where are you from? Who was the reseller?

Not telling names, sorry, fulfilled my vendetta already by talking them down to everybody I know... I believe that you know them quite well.

 

[CoolHandLuke]

hmmm.... between Kastle Mills and Aurum Calgary i don't know off hand (without using google) who might be reselling 3shape licenses in Canada.

 

[zero_zero]

A few more actually, lots of systems are using 3shape scanners.


Sent from my SGH-I747M using Tapatalk 2

 

[Alex770b]

We are using 3shape scanner for 4 years, and very happy, we don't have problem with support, 3shape software not difficult to use. Now we make a lot of custom Ti abutments for Zimmer, Astra, Straumann, Nobel
also we mill CoCr with very good result. If you want mill CoCr and Ti, you need big machine, not Roland, and good CAM software

 

[Drizzt]

We are using 3shape scanner for 4 years, and very happy, we don't have problem with support, 3shape software not difficult to use. Now we make a lot of custom Ti abutments for Zimmer, Astra, Straumann, Nobel
also we mill CoCr with very good result. If you want mill CoCr and Ti, you need big machine, not Roland, and good CAM software

What milling machine and CAM you;re using ? Thanks .

 

[Alex770b]

We are using Mach5 (ICM ) and WokrNC CAM software

 

[RJS8669]

I have both 3Shape and Exocad systems, as well as Lava and Nobel systems. 3Shape wins - hands down.

 

[Drizzt]

We are using Mach5 (ICM ) and WokrNC CAM software

Are you happy with Mach 5 ? I nearly bought it , but chose Yenadent instead . I am perfectly happy with my choice . I am milling everything and having great results . What setup do you have ( spindle power etc ) . Post some pics of the abutments you're making !

 

[Alex770b]

We very happy with Mach5, our first machine was Yenadent, and we can see difference. We have spindle 4.6w

 

[Alex770b]

 

[Drizzt]

That's sweet Alex , nice man ! Thanks for sharing ! Have tried any e.max milling with it ?

 

[Alex770b]

Not yet, we need fixture for e.max, and cam-software, we only going to begin work with e.max.