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<blockquote data-quote="paulg100" data-source="post: 40343" data-attributes="member: 1643"><p>Greg do you have that book, the techniques are not that difficult. I'm not saying were all gonna be michel magne's, but the techniques are fully achievable buy competent ceramists in my opinion. </p><p></p><p>The problems with pressed ceramic is its all or nothing. If i want to mask an area of tooth which is dark, then a HO blocks everything not just the area in question. you then have to battle with the rest of the HO ingot to impart</p><p>vitality/translucency again.</p><p></p><p>Ive posted some of this case before but it gives a good idea of colour blocking with emax veneers:</p><p></p><p><img src="http://img851.imageshack.us/img851/5695/beforek.jpg" alt="" class="fr-fic fr-dii fr-draggable " style="" /></p><p></p><p>[ATTACH=full]8536[/ATTACH]</p><p></p><p>[ATTACH=full]8537[/ATTACH]</p><p></p><p>Emax crown on 11(8) and veneer 21(9)</p><p></p><p>[ATTACH=full]8538[/ATTACH]</p><p></p><p>[ATTACH=full]8539[/ATTACH]</p><p></p><p>This was a MO0 shell and layered. Took two trys, the first i had 1mm reduction and couldn't mask it, the veneer was greying, the 2nd was prepped at bit more so ended up with 1.5mm. The shell was about .8-1mm. (did have a image of the 1st try, ill post if i can find it). Even in these images the veneer is greying ever so slightly.</p><p></p><p>If you have less than 1mm and a prep like this, then from my experience you aint gonna block it with MO, LT or HT. Maybe with HO, but is it possible to make the tooth look vital?</p><p></p><p>I just cant imagine how i could have got vitality in a HO frame, but if someone is doing it then please share.</p><p></p><p>"This begin said a " michel magne" most of us will never come close"</p><p></p><p>Personally i think were all capable of comming close, just depends on the amount of time and effort we want to dedicate. 1) he is very talented, 2) he has no doubt sunk a TON of hours in to developing his skills. We may not all have 1 but we can all do 2 which will get us close.</p><p></p><p>" you need to use OD and know what color / colors is going to give the result you need to block out that specific underlying color"</p><p></p><p>Have you tried playing around with mamelon/OD mixes / power dentines greg, this will make better colour blockers.</p><p></p><p>All in all MKV i think your client needs to ba a bit more realistic. If you have this kind of discolouring and minimal labial space, then maybe a minimal crown prep on zirconia would be the best option. I find Zirconia sits between HO and MO (depending on what brand you use) and is alot easier to manage than a HO ingot but has better masking ability than MO.</p><p></p><p>Or.. you start learning feldspathics. I hope to dedicate some time to this meself as it really is a great tool for these types of cases.</p><p></p><p>Dang i just noticed a pit in that veneer in the last image! ah well ,back to the drawing board <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></p><p>[ATTACH=full]8536[/ATTACH][ATTACH=full]8537[/ATTACH][ATTACH=full]8538[/ATTACH][ATTACH=full]8539[/ATTACH]</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="paulg100, post: 40343, member: 1643"] Greg do you have that book, the techniques are not that difficult. I'm not saying were all gonna be michel magne's, but the techniques are fully achievable buy competent ceramists in my opinion. The problems with pressed ceramic is its all or nothing. If i want to mask an area of tooth which is dark, then a HO blocks everything not just the area in question. you then have to battle with the rest of the HO ingot to impart vitality/translucency again. Ive posted some of this case before but it gives a good idea of colour blocking with emax veneers: [IMG]http://img851.imageshack.us/img851/5695/beforek.jpg[/IMG] [attach=full]8536[/attach] [attach=full]8537[/attach] Emax crown on 11(8) and veneer 21(9) [attach=full]8538[/attach] [attach=full]8539[/attach] This was a MO0 shell and layered. Took two trys, the first i had 1mm reduction and couldn't mask it, the veneer was greying, the 2nd was prepped at bit more so ended up with 1.5mm. The shell was about .8-1mm. (did have a image of the 1st try, ill post if i can find it). Even in these images the veneer is greying ever so slightly. If you have less than 1mm and a prep like this, then from my experience you aint gonna block it with MO, LT or HT. Maybe with HO, but is it possible to make the tooth look vital? I just cant imagine how i could have got vitality in a HO frame, but if someone is doing it then please share. "This begin said a " michel magne" most of us will never come close" Personally i think were all capable of comming close, just depends on the amount of time and effort we want to dedicate. 1) he is very talented, 2) he has no doubt sunk a TON of hours in to developing his skills. We may not all have 1 but we can all do 2 which will get us close. " you need to use OD and know what color / colors is going to give the result you need to block out that specific underlying color" Have you tried playing around with mamelon/OD mixes / power dentines greg, this will make better colour blockers. All in all MKV i think your client needs to ba a bit more realistic. If you have this kind of discolouring and minimal labial space, then maybe a minimal crown prep on zirconia would be the best option. I find Zirconia sits between HO and MO (depending on what brand you use) and is alot easier to manage than a HO ingot but has better masking ability than MO. Or.. you start learning feldspathics. I hope to dedicate some time to this meself as it really is a great tool for these types of cases. Dang i just noticed a pit in that veneer in the last image! ah well ,back to the drawing board :) [ATTACH=full]8536[/ATTACH][ATTACH=full]8537[/ATTACH][ATTACH=full]8538[/ATTACH][ATTACH=full]8539[/ATTACH] [/QUOTE]
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