Emax ceram over press

[dhdc]

Just finished a 6 unit anterior case today and im still getting a peel from the ceramic.I am using the allround liquid[which i dont like]
There are also small cracks[not cte]which when trimmed back and corrected are fine,im sure this has to do with a heat rate,climb,etc but am not sure where to start.I am using a slow entry and a slow cool..... any ideas???
Thanks guys Dean

 

[TheLabGuy]

Let it dry.........
I let mine dry for a good 15 minutes, most times even longer. I think Ivoclar's R&D department must take a lot of breaks because this is the same for d.Sign as well.......let them sit there and dry, dry, dry, dry.........no pulls, tears, or 'shrink cracks'.....
If you don't like waiting, I'd suggest applying less porcelain and do multiple bakes. Hope that helps.

 

[dhdc]

Thanks Rob,you are a great help.

 

[sndmn2]

When you say "peel" are you referring to separation from the press to the porcelain?

 

[TheLabGuy]

Thanks Rob,you are a great help.

Don't mention it........
You almost feel obligated to help after you've spent enough time on here learning so much from everyone.

 

[Al.]

When you say "peel" are you referring to separation from the press to the porcelain?

Thats what I was wondering.
I always get peel that if my first bond coat is too heavy.

After the first wash coat I havnt had any problems.

Rob, I found that I dont need to give a dry time outside the oven for emax cerm. unlike pfm layering porc.
For emax I layer and put it on the platform and push start with no waiting time.
The All Around Liquid is what I use also.

 

[charles007]

Push start with my ep5000, its pre-programed with a 4 minute dry and wait for the beep. Also use All Round liq.
Rob, want to trade furnaces,,,,,hehe

 

[Al.]

Push start with my ep5000, its pre-programed with a 4 minute dry and wait for the beep. Also use All Round liq.
Rob, want to trade furnaces,,,,,hehe

So your coming up for air for a couple of seconds?

 

[TheLabGuy]

Push start with my ep5000, its pre-programed with a 4 minute dry and wait for the beep. Also use All Round liq.
Rob, want to trade furnaces,,,,,hehe

Oh, you're so cute with your ep5000.
At the time, it was what I could afford, I have no regrets, and like I've always stated, if you have the time to play with parameters and you want to save yourself a few thousand dollars, go with Whip Mix, IF you don't have the time, go with Ivoclar.......but Real Men use Whip Mix

 

[charles007]

Rob, I could buy 2 pro200 for the cost of my 5000,,,,,, would I go with Ivoclar today.....nope...... but its nice... and still at 100% success rate.
By the time I pay this oven off, emax will be a distant memory .

 

[dhdc]

Yes,the over porcelain just lifts from the pressed emax around all the margins,it seems to fill up perfectly on the second firing,but just looks a bit ugly when it first comes out ofthe furnace

 

[sixonice]

Yes,the over porcelain just lifts from the pressed emax around all the margins,it seems to fill up perfectly on the second firing,but just looks a bit ugly when it first comes out ofthe furnace

you wanna be fring the ceram at 750C in a programat oven, if your using something else, you may be up around 760 or 765C. to make it even easier to help you, what are the temps and parameters that your using and what oven?

 

[sndmn2]

Yes,the over porcelain just lifts from the pressed emax around all the margins,it seems to fill up perfectly on the second firing,but just looks a bit ugly when it first comes out ofthe furnace

Are you applying a wash fire before your first build?

 

[dhdc]

i didnt apply a wah firing on these,they were over veneers,which i didnt think would need a wash as i was adding alot less,i have still had it happen over crowns witha wash firing.I have a feeling it must be to pre,pre dry as suggested by Rob.I will try that a see how it goes!

 

[charles007]

I'm using glaze paste on the Wash Firing (Foundation)
We were also taught to use a wash fire with veneers.
What is everyone else using ?

 

[paulg100]

yeah you need a wash layer of some sort. if your not doing this then this is your problem, it was the same with empress.

either do a glaze fire on it first if you are doing partial cut back, or glaze bake or even better use the sprinkle technique for full layered.

If your not familiar with the sprinkle tech say and ill explain.

i have never had a peel problem apart from when i very first starting using emax and didnt fire this layer first. Also never any issus with dry times. Just use all round liquid and/or distilled water. I have not found emax ceram at all fussy.

All round liquid has plenty of plasticiser and i have found this excellent for detailed controlled build ups.

 

[charles007]

Just finished a 6 unit anterior case today and im still getting a peel from the ceramic.I am using the allround liquid[which i dont like]
There are also small cracks[not cte]which when trimmed back and corrected are fine,im sure this has to do with a heat rate,climb,etc but am not sure where to start.I am using a slow entry and a slow cool..... any ideas???
Thanks guys Dean

Dean, I think you will receive better help if you give better exact details on your technique, materials, and firing schedule.