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<blockquote data-quote="CoolHandLuke" data-source="post: 275418" data-attributes="member: 4850"><p>this is just the way i break it down</p><p></p><p>in order to make 60k the lab needs to be earning PROFIT of 120k/year. lets assume you want to work 5 days per week. thats 5x50weeks per year 250 working days. nice round number but we need to work in weeks for the 4 appointment technique so its the 50 week we'll be working with.</p><p></p><p>in order to answer how many accounts you need to work for, start by assuming each account will do the 4 visit denture, which is a minimum of 2 weeks work each. 4 visit denture helps mask the true cost of removable work, as each visit is charged for its component work. baseplate and wax rim try-in, waxup try-in, delivery. add a perliminary visit for custom impression trays but thats down to the clinician because sometimes thats done else where and sometimes in house. add a week anytime there needs to be a remake in that process.</p><p></p><p>what you charge at each of those stages is going to depend on your experience in the craft, lets assume a nice round figure of 2000 per denture per arch. thats a 400$ visit for 5 visits. 2k/arch and our profit is about 1k. target of 120k profit means 120 arches per 50 weeks. accounting for a 30% remake factor (1 visit remake) thats 180 arches.</p><p></p><p>now, is it a good idea to go digital, well the baltic system uses the same teeth and same setup for every patient and you dont get a say in whether or not you want a different setup so theres that. if you were wondering more about doing the stuff in house thats another can of worms; there isnt a definite workflow yet from the CAD CAM side about how to approach digital denturism, some places want you to use stock teeth, some let you freehand, and almost all of them are the kind where you glue teeth into sockets in custom baseplates, waxups be damned.</p><p></p><p>so you tell me if thats what you want to do.</p><p></p><p>the system you pick for manufacturing will dictate your requirements for lab equipment. an all hand work setup will have most of the overhead in fuel for your burners, and no that doesnt mean you can replace the wax pots with electric pots, because often you need a flame to soften a sheet of wax, to flash a baseplate, or to heat a tool. the adding wax during setup, maybe you can get away with it, but you still need a flame, portable or otherwise and thats a gas bill. monomers also have regulations about where they can safely be stored. cant be just in any old cupboard.</p><p></p><p>if you are planning on using brass flasks, and brass articulators count on your well of work drying up very soon. this method tends to ignore crucial design characteristics that anyone with as simple artifulator as a Denar/hanau would be able to account for. anyone who has been through a Kois session will not work with you until you buy a Panadent. people who do LVI also tend to stick to Stratos or SAM. then when you buy any of them you need to calibrate them together because no 2 are exactly identical. trust me on this.</p><p></p><p>then you have the actual bureaucratic overhead like legal fees of setting up a lab and accounting paperwork. </p><p></p><p>if it were me, i'd look to gainful employment rather than the 50-60k in startup money it would take to get the lab going and buy digital things. because while it may be 15-20k for a waxing and handwork lab, you'll have to get a second loan for downpayments on digital equipment which can (and currently do) run into 6 figures.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="CoolHandLuke, post: 275418, member: 4850"] this is just the way i break it down in order to make 60k the lab needs to be earning PROFIT of 120k/year. lets assume you want to work 5 days per week. thats 5x50weeks per year 250 working days. nice round number but we need to work in weeks for the 4 appointment technique so its the 50 week we'll be working with. in order to answer how many accounts you need to work for, start by assuming each account will do the 4 visit denture, which is a minimum of 2 weeks work each. 4 visit denture helps mask the true cost of removable work, as each visit is charged for its component work. baseplate and wax rim try-in, waxup try-in, delivery. add a perliminary visit for custom impression trays but thats down to the clinician because sometimes thats done else where and sometimes in house. add a week anytime there needs to be a remake in that process. what you charge at each of those stages is going to depend on your experience in the craft, lets assume a nice round figure of 2000 per denture per arch. thats a 400$ visit for 5 visits. 2k/arch and our profit is about 1k. target of 120k profit means 120 arches per 50 weeks. accounting for a 30% remake factor (1 visit remake) thats 180 arches. now, is it a good idea to go digital, well the baltic system uses the same teeth and same setup for every patient and you dont get a say in whether or not you want a different setup so theres that. if you were wondering more about doing the stuff in house thats another can of worms; there isnt a definite workflow yet from the CAD CAM side about how to approach digital denturism, some places want you to use stock teeth, some let you freehand, and almost all of them are the kind where you glue teeth into sockets in custom baseplates, waxups be damned. so you tell me if thats what you want to do. the system you pick for manufacturing will dictate your requirements for lab equipment. an all hand work setup will have most of the overhead in fuel for your burners, and no that doesnt mean you can replace the wax pots with electric pots, because often you need a flame to soften a sheet of wax, to flash a baseplate, or to heat a tool. the adding wax during setup, maybe you can get away with it, but you still need a flame, portable or otherwise and thats a gas bill. monomers also have regulations about where they can safely be stored. cant be just in any old cupboard. if you are planning on using brass flasks, and brass articulators count on your well of work drying up very soon. this method tends to ignore crucial design characteristics that anyone with as simple artifulator as a Denar/hanau would be able to account for. anyone who has been through a Kois session will not work with you until you buy a Panadent. people who do LVI also tend to stick to Stratos or SAM. then when you buy any of them you need to calibrate them together because no 2 are exactly identical. trust me on this. then you have the actual bureaucratic overhead like legal fees of setting up a lab and accounting paperwork. if it were me, i'd look to gainful employment rather than the 50-60k in startup money it would take to get the lab going and buy digital things. because while it may be 15-20k for a waxing and handwork lab, you'll have to get a second loan for downpayments on digital equipment which can (and currently do) run into 6 figures. [/QUOTE]
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