Zubler, Press 4 Rings Per Hour

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charles007

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As some of you already know, I press with the Ivoclar ep5000 and love the results, 100%success record of no re-pressings using emax.. Its annoying with the reaction layer, but the acid bath does the trick alone with glass beads and Al. Just more labor and material cost !
Now that emax has become so popular I thought I would share something I learned and not yet said on DLN. The Zubler oven will press 4 rings per hour, about 12 minutes, and as I've seen first hand, no reaction layer to speak about.. My next pressing oven will be a Zubler for sure..
I'm not a Zubler dealer and make no money promoting this oven.. For the labs that haven't bought a pressing oven, you really need to check this oven out. For those labs that already press alot of and need another oven, pressing 4 per hour could be a big advantage and cheaper than my ep5000.
The Zubler also presses the 200g much faster than my ep5000.. :(
Just an opinion guys, and well worth thinking about..

Charles
 
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paulg100

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Sounds well worth looking at for people without a press.

For me though i hope to get at least 10 years out of my ep3000.

After that, we will even still be pressing by then?......
 
cheadlemick

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Im getting a zubler anybody want a propress ive got 3!
 
ps2thtec

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My new Zubler is on the way. Ordered this week after debating the press oven question. Went back and read recent banter on here and called Chris .
I had been using Autopress with pretty consistent results but when the muffle went and tried a borrowed ProPress out decided I've had enough. Time to upgrade.
Thanks to LabGuy for giving me his numbers but that PP100 was no where near my old Autopress . Could not use anything that I pressed in it. The reaction layer was like blasting granite. Lucky I had a local guy press some in his EP3000.
And those had almost zero reac layer.
But the faster press times helped me decide, ZUBLER. Press on!
 
NicelyMKV

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Wonder how that massive increase in pressing speed effects the material? You would think Ivoclar, with all the millions spent in R&D, would have done this already? Especially with their EP3 and 5000 pressing furnaces? Those things are beasts. Just curious?
 
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My new Zubler is on the way. Ordered this week after debating the press oven question. Went back and read recent banter on here and called Chris .
I had been using Autopress with pretty consistent results but when the muffle went and tried a borrowed ProPress out decided I've had enough. Time to upgrade.
Thanks to LabGuy for giving me his numbers but that PP100 was no where near my old Autopress . Could not use anything that I pressed in it. The reaction layer was like blasting granite. Lucky I had a local guy press some in his EP3000.
And those had almost zero reac layer.
But the faster press times helped me decide, ZUBLER. Press on!

You are going to love it. Make sure you have one of the crew at Zubler on the phone to walk you through the initial set-up. Its simple and quick and will get you going. Im anxious to hear your report.
 
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Zubler oven & emax / 4 rings per hour

Charles, can you get me the press parameters for emax in the Zubler oven? Would like to compare them to mine! Thanks -
 
shane williams

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I'm confused if it's just pressing faster, why not just increase the heat rate of your EP5000? I'm currious to see the parameters for the Zubler also. Does it shorten the hold, increase the heat rate, how can it press faster with doing one or both of those options? And if that's the case why not just do that to your EP5000
 
NicelyMKV

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I'm really curious as well. I thought the press times were set precisely on the EP5000 etc to also control the translucency of the material? Very interested in how it looks.
 
amadent

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my total press time in my Zubler is 27 minutes and 15 seconds per 100 gram ring
are the parameters faster than that?

Greg Amendola MDT
 
shane williams

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that sounds about right, for the first ring I think it goes faster each ring after that since it's been heated up it doesn't take as long to reach the max temp.
 
ps2thtec

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my total press time in my Zubler is 27 minutes and 15 seconds per 100 gram ring
are the parameters faster than that?

Greg Amendola MDT


My new Zubler does 14-15 min for 100 gm, 17-18 min for 200gm, total program time.
 
amadent

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Isn't their a 15 min hold on e-max with a 100g ring?

thats what i have in my zubler vario press 300 Shane

here is my 100 gram ring cycle for emax

start temp 700 'c
heat rate 60'c
final temp 925'c
hold time 15 minutes
press time 8 minutes
pressure low
vac level 730 mm
opening time :30 seconds
 
shane williams

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thats what i have in my zubler vario press 300 Shane

here is my 100 gram ring cycle for emax

start temp 700 'c
heat rate 60'c
final temp 925'c
hold time 15 minutes
press time 8 minutes
pressure low
vac level 730 mm
opening time :30 seconds

Those are my numbers too, except final temp is 915'c.
So I wonder how ps2thetic is getting a 14-15 total program time, doesn't seem right.
 
ps2thtec

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I
thats what i have in my zubler vario press 300 Shane

here is my 100 gram ring cycle for emax

start temp 700 'c
heat rate 60'c
final temp 925'c
hold time 15 minutes
press time 8 minutes
pressure low
vac level 730 mm
opening time :30 seconds

Go back to the thread, Zubler vs Dekema , 4-2-12, for theory in the new press. Sorry I can't link.
 
amadent

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FROM CHRIS ZUBLER from dekema vs zubler post
HERE WE GO!

Lithium disilicate melts at 885C. to achieve this meting temperature inside the ring, the typical program rases to a hold temperature higher than that of the melting temperature. This all has to do with the thermal mass of the object the energy is being put into.

A strait line heat thus causes the inside of the ring to have a temperature lower than that of the outside of the ring. This causes the material to press to a temperature much higher than that of the insdide of the ring, thus overheating the material and causing it to append itself to the investment it is pressed to. This causes the reaction layer everyone hates. This is why you pay for and have to use an acid bath.

The optimal pressing situation is to have the inside of the ring, outside of the ring and chamber all at the same temperature when it is time to press. In order to achieve this environment, the firing perameters have to be changed to accomidate the thermal mass of the investment and material.

That being said the normal rate rise to a hold temperature that you press to will not work.

Our system raises the heat and then drops it so that when we press ALL the temperatures are the same, thus not overheating the lithium disilicate and providing the optimal environment. May I now add that this allows for a reaction layer free pressing, saving you 3/4 of the time you spend on processing a unit. approximately 1/2 the oven processing time, no time in an acid bath. Which also saves you money on acid!

The way we process the Lithium disilicate does not negatively affect the properties of the lithium disilicate in any way. The process merely changes the firing perameters to actually accomidate the thermal mass.

Our brochure which is available online will more specifically explain the actual temperatures I am referring to. below is the brochure link.

http://www.zubler.de/files/m_vp300e_en_110209.pdf

Chris
 
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If anyone of the Zubler team are listening...am I correct that disposable plungers MUST be used with the new fast press program?
 
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Thanks for the information - I will try these parameters on Friday!
 
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