Zirlux Acetal Partial

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BLUE

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Hello,

Just tried out the acetal partial with 3shape- designed and milled it. No sintered.

Fit was good on the model. But it seems to be really thin. The major connector was 1mm and the grid or

Mesh area was 0.5 mm.

What is the minimum or recommended thickness on this material?

I am not sure it can be that thin. And when I tried to bend it, I can almost touch the edges of each side. Way

Too flexible.

Is this normal? Is this material supposed to flex like that?

Thank you
 
CoolHandLuke

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yes. and stop what you are doing. nothing bonds to acetal, and you'll never get good retention. this was a poorly thought out idea. also, for years acetal warps when you mill it. discs which were once round are now egg shaped after a few days.
 
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Thank you.

What I understood was that nothing bonds to metal frame as well. Not sure that is right.

The dentist mention me that patient want to get permanent partial but does not want to see the metal clasps.

So I was thinking that acetal material will be the good option. Maybe I was wrong?

What about 4C partial?
Anyone have some experiences?
Is 4C partial permanent or temporary like flipper?
 
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I have a good experience with acetal partials. It is coming out quite thin when you stick to the manufacturer recommendations, but can you not compensate and design it thicker? There is a primer that you can use to bond - some bredent stuff, it is here somwere on the forum as well. Good luck! it is nice material IMO.
 
sidesh0wb0b

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Thank you.

What I understood was that nothing bonds to metal frame as well. Not sure that is right.

The dentist mention me that patient want to get permanent partial but does not want to see the metal clasps.

So I was thinking that acetal material will be the good option. Maybe I was wrong?

What about 4C partial?
Anyone have some experiences?
Is 4C partial permanent or temporary like flipper?
you are correct, acrylic doesnt bond to metal either....so that argument against acetal is mute IMHO.
ive not seen the poor results like CHL has, but have toyed with it a little bit. seems a decent option when used properly. if seeing metal is a concern and acetal you arent liking for the frame, why not do acetal clasps on a metal frame? either tooth colored or pink acetal. or better yet, we have switched to using the snowrock clasps. they bond well and look great.
 
JMN

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You can make metal bond to acrylic, but it needs an extra step and a primer.

Acetyl clasps on metal frame is the way.
 
CoolHandLuke

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no, what you need is a Shape Memory Polymer with a flexible point above 55C

anything less isn't worth your time. anything less is just a fancy tooth remover.
 
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Hello,
do you guys have any tips, at our lab we want to start milling them.
Can we use injection acrylic ? Does it changes anything?
What would that primer be for better results?

Thank you
 
sidesh0wb0b

sidesh0wb0b

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Hello,
do you guys have any tips, at our lab we want to start milling them.
Can we use injection acrylic ? Does it changes anything?
What would that primer be for better results?

Thank you
we inject over them, works just fine ;)
no primer needed, but it is mechanical retention only.
 
Simon_Vincismile

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Hello,
do you guys have any tips, at our lab we want to start milling them.
Can we use injection acrylic ? Does it changes anything?
What would that primer be for better results?

Thank you
Hi, for our flexible framework(made from Nylon) you can use injection acrylic and it works well.
Now we can provide a free flexible disc for NA customers. If you'd like to get it, you could contact me by email, or just come to our website.
email: [email protected]
website: https://www.vincismile.com/nobilcam-flexible-disc-product/
 

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bigj1972

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you are correct, acrylic doesnt bond to metal either....so that argument against acetal is mute IMHO.
ive not seen the poor results like CHL has, but have toyed with it a little bit. seems a decent option when used properly. if seeing metal is a concern and acetal you arent liking for the frame, why not do acetal clasps on a metal frame? either tooth colored or pink acetal. or better yet, we have switched to using the snowrock clasps. they bond well and look great.
It doesn't bond to metal, but a metal framework is rigid and has the highest flexural strength. Therefore because of thermoplastics flexibility, the mechanical retention is the weak link. It will eventually fail.
 
bigj1972

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Hello,
do you guys have any tips, at our lab we want to start milling them.
Can we use injection acrylic ? Does it changes anything?
What would that primer be for better results?

Thank you
Their is no acrylic bonding primer for any flexible thermoplastic except two classifications. None which have been discussed here.
 
sidesh0wb0b

sidesh0wb0b

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It doesn't bond to metal, but a metal framework is rigid and has the highest flexural strength. Therefore because of thermoplastics flexibility, the mechanical retention is the weak link. It will eventually fail.
potentially, yes. we have been making them for years and years now and havent even had a clasp fail yet (knock on wood). we have, however, had cast clasps break.

in reality, it all depends upon how things are treated from start to finish. initial dialogue, treatment planning, and the "right" set of circumstances for the RPD is key. we dont offer milled acetal frames on all cases. at least not without a caveat. just as we dont make flexible partials on all cases. evaluation and case planning are important. this goes for all products in the lab.
 
sidesh0wb0b

sidesh0wb0b

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Their is no acrylic bonding primer for any flexible thermoplastic except two classifications. None which have been discussed here.
please, lay it out for us! i am eager to learn
 
bigj1972

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Should be in the IFU

I'll give a hint:
It's manufactured by TCS
 
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bigj1972

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And we lost one that Posca Brothers was playing with before the pandemic. Was great stuff.

If one of you PBL are on here, please DM
 
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Hello,
I have a Duraflex Milling disk and I tried to mill it with a strategy for PMMA and it broke my tool XD .
What strategy do you guys use on your milling softwares?
Thank you sorry for being such a noob.

 
CoolHandLuke

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with Acetal you HAVE to go faster than normal milling, the material is extremely soft. bump your feed rate up and spindle speed up. with most people's standard pmma templates you could be going slowly enough that the tools just rub on the material which kinda makes it so that the tool itself gets warm and begins sticking to the material, jamming and breaking.
 
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with Acetal you HAVE to go faster than normal milling, the material is extremely soft. bump your feed rate up and spindle speed up. with most people's standard pmma templates you could be going slowly enough that the tools just rub on the material which kinda makes it so that the tool itself gets warm and begins sticking to the material, jamming and breaking.
Hello,
thank you I'll try to figure the speed of my tool compare to others maybe. Because someone else is telling me to slow down and you to go faster haha but I have no reference of speed :(
 

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