Zirconium Titanium Hybrid?

[RJS8669]

I've been in the biz since 1984, as well. I recently put out my first ZiHy full arch bridge completed on 6 Straumann Variobases. It turned out really well, in my opinion.

Here's how I developed the skills necessary to complete the job -

First, I've been using 3Shape for more than 6 years, and before that I had a Procera set-up and worked with Cynovad, as well. I'm a decent technician, and I know my way around the software pretty well - not as well and CHL - but enough to get most jobs done.

I saw the potential for this type of case a few years ago when CAP introduced their IZIR process using NT 2-Connect components. I spent around $2000 flying up to Boston and taking the class there. I did a couple of small screw-retained bridges using what I learned, but never did a full arch.

Last year, I arranged to visit and spend the day with a fellow DLN member (I won't divulge his name because I'm not sure he would want everyone knowing how much he helped me, but if he wants to chime in...). Again, probably spent close to $2k in flights, hotels and one nice bottle of scotch for my mentor) That was last January. It took a year for me to get a case where I felt comfortable in saying I could complete the work with a certain level of competency. Even then, I had to check in with my mentor to look over my design, and then again to help me out with the actual milling of the restoration (Spent another $1000 in zirconia pucks cuz the damn thing cracked 3 different times during sintering - we were trying to to go it alone and missed a couple of things that contributed to the error.

Anyway - my point is I spent a bunch of money and time getting schooled. I appreciate that you are not asking for a cookbook solution. But, simply to ask what module to use isn't going to help you much. These things are complicated. I strongly suggest you contact CAP or Core3D and find out if they have any upcoming courses. Or, find your own mentor. Good luck with that - I was incredibly fortunate to have found someone who was so willing to share his time and expertise. Maybe there is someone out there for you...

 

[Tayebdental]

And who is that Good Samaritan who helped you, because that's what supposed be, sharing and mentoring. The old days of covering your bench with a towel when taking a break, gone for good

 

[2thm8kr]

I respect the fact that the mentor wasn't revealed. People have businesses to run and can't be interrupted constantly.

Hopefully you are right about the towel days being over, but it seems old habits die hard.

I have spent a lot of money plus hours on CE and my own R&D to figure things out. Along with lots and lots of reading and networking with other techs. My mentors shared freely with me and I feel an obligation to do the same. I will say though, there are some things that took me so much effort to gain I just can't easily give it up. You need a discriminator or you are just the same as the guy down the street.

Part of.mentoring is also teaching how to think critically and figure out things yourself.

 

[Marylandfarmer]

I've been in the biz since 1984, as well. I recently put out my first ZiHy full arch bridge completed on 6 Straumann Variobases. It turned out really well, in my opinion.

Here's how I developed the skills necessary to complete the job -

First, I've been using 3Shape for more than 6 years, and before that I had a Procera set-up and worked with Cynovad, as well. I'm a decent technician, and I know my way around the software pretty well - not as well and CHL - but enough to get most jobs done.

I saw the potential for this type of case a few years ago when CAP introduced their IZIR process using NT 2-Connect components. I spent around $2000 flying up to Boston and taking the class there. I did a couple of small screw-retained bridges using what I learned, but never did a full arch.

Last year, I arranged to visit and spend the day with a fellow DLN member (I won't divulge his name because I'm not sure he would want everyone knowing how much he helped me, but if he wants to chime in...). Again, probably spent close to $2k in flights, hotels and one nice bottle of scotch for my mentor) That was last January. It took a year for me to get a case where I felt comfortable in saying I could complete the work with a certain level of competency. Even then, I had to check in with my mentor to look over my design, and then again to help me out with the actual milling of the restoration (Spent another $1000 in zirconia pucks cuz the damn thing cracked 3 different times during sintering - we were trying to to go it alone and missed a couple of things that contributed to the error.

Anyway - my point is I spent a bunch of money and time getting schooled. I appreciate that you are not asking for a cookbook solution. But, simply to ask what module to use isn't going to help you much. These things are complicated. I strongly suggest you contact CAP or Core3D and find out if they have any upcoming courses. Or, find your own mentor. Good luck with that - I was incredibly fortunate to have found someone who was so willing to share his time and expertise. Maybe there is someone out there for you...

Thanks for the feedback. I know these are complicated, and I understand these skills are hard learned and not to be given away lightly. It is good to get the feedback that these are not easy, this makes me feel less like a dope. I have been making the Ti Frames using Nobel for a while, and they work great I do not have the ability to Mill Titanium in house but with the new zirconium 5 axes mill thought this would be where to start by milling the top. I am up to the task and I will post my results when I figure things out.

My new would be, Is this doable on 3 Shape, or would I have more flexibility using Exocad? I saw the CAP guys in Chicago for the last two years, this is what intrigued me into trying to do one of these. Bob Cohen said you need a 3 Shape system with the best scanner and a 5 axis mill. We have the best scanner 3 Shape offers and we have a Weiland Select 5 axis mill. I asked Bob this year if it will work and he said good luck on the milling strategy, he uses Rolland mills. I got the feeling that if I bought his system he would be willing to teach me if I paid to come to his course. But he has had to work out his milling strategy, which he is willing to sell. Everyone is learning how to do this stuff and whoever figures it out first, sells the knowledge to those willing to pay. This is capitalism, what makes the world run.

I think it is indeed a brave new world. Thanks for the comments!

 

[2thm8kr]

Thanks for the feedback. I know these are complicated, and I understand these skills are hard learned and not to be given away lightly. It is good to get the feedback that these are not easy, this makes me feel less like a dope. I have been making the Ti Frames using Nobel for a while, and they work great I do not have the ability to Mill Titanium in house but with the new zirconium 5 axes mill thought this would be where to start by milling the top. I am up to the task and I will post my results when I figure things out.

My new would be, Is this doable on 3 Shape, or would I have more flexibility using Exocad? I saw the CAP guys in Chicago for the last two years, this is what intrigued me into trying to do one of these. Bob Cohen said you need a 3 Shape system with the best scanner and a 5 axis mill. We have the best scanner 3 Shape offers and we have a Weiland Select 5 axis mill. I asked Bob this year if it will work and he said good luck on the milling strategy, he uses Rolland mills. I got the feeling that if I bought his system he would be willing to teach me if I paid to come to his course. But he has had to work out his milling strategy, which he is willing to sell. Everyone is learning how to do this stuff and whoever figures it out first, sells the knowledge to those willing to pay. This is capitalism, what makes the world run.

I think it is indeed a brave new world. Thanks for the comments!

Everything is better with exocad don't listen to those 3Shape dopes.

 

[Marylandfarmer]

What scanner do you use with exocad?

 

[2thm8kr]

What scanner do you use with exocad?

Steinbichler STII and DOF HD

 

[CoolHandLuke]

 

[Marylandfarmer]

Hey I found some great training, only $12, not including transportation...

 

[CoolHandLuke]

you will not war me in gifs.

 

[Marylandfarmer]

Calm down and adjust your codpiece Adder...

 

[2thm8kr]

you will not war me in gifs.

 

[rkm rdt]

 

[JohnWilson]

Blue.... you're my boy!

 

[CoolHandLuke]

 

[Marylandfarmer]

Blue.... you're my boy!

???

 

[Labwa]

I did a secondary (titanium) frame on DS 2014 over a bar. I think i used a temp crown unsectioned. Or maybe splint designer.... Zirconia over a titanium bar does not make a lot of sense to me though. Titanium flexes and Zirc does not. You forgo the mass of zirconia to put a bar underneath so you may get fractures or de-lamination between the bar and Zirconia. I would do pretau style or hybrid acrylic but not a mixture of both....there are easier ways to achieve a result..IMO