Zirconium Titanium Hybrid?

[Marylandfarmer]

We are new owners of a 3Shape system. We have a D2000 scanner with a Wieland hybrid select mill.

I have some experience with Sirona and Nobel. Starting with a Nobel Mod 40, then a Forte, and we have the newest Nobel scanner. I have designed a lot of titanium bars and custom abutments on Nobel and some C&B on Sirona. I have been through the basic training with Ivoclar/Wieland.

I have very little experience using 3Shape...

I am interested in making a hybrid zirconium/titanium screw retained prosthesis. Where do I start? I am interested in scanning the wax up over the finished frame. Designing a digital copy of the wax up that fits to the top of the frame. Then Mill this design out of PMMA, for a trial prosthesis, or zirconium for the final.

I know this should be possible, just not sure where to start. What 3 Shape module I need to use? I have done this type of thing on other systems for a crown or small bridge. I think they may have called it "Copy cad". When I choose to do this for a waxed up bridge it wants to scan all the dies. I only have one thing to scan for the bottom, the top of the bar.
Thanks for your expertise.

 

[Sevan P]

Welcome to the 3shape world.
Step one: Learn the software.
Step Two: Learn the software even more.
Step Three: Take courses on the more advanced stuff.

This is not going to be a cake walk for you, you have a long hard road ahead of you especially if you don't know the software and what does what.

CAP has IZIR classes on start to finished for all on four cases. Don;t know anyone who does course on the image above.

Modules are able to use Cad Points, so no need to purchase the full module up front. Buy Cad points and have the module open on your dongle and you use points, example trios scan to make a model cost 6 cad points. Or if $$$ is not an object buy the module.

Implant bar and bridge module is one that you need, Implant design maybe needed as well, comes with C&B design. tissue is free.

The D2000 is a beast and should work well for what your trying to do. Who is your retailer?

 

[Marylandfarmer]

Sevan,

Thanks for the advise. I think you are saying...I need to "learn the software?"
I'm kind of chomping at the bit, it has been a long road getting this thing up and running
I'm just interested in seeing where to start on this type of case. We do a lot of this type of cases and most are acrylic on Titanium bar. The acrylic does not hold up, especially when you have a heavy bruxer.

I think we purchased all the modules available, with the exception of the ortho module, when we got the system.
We purchased the system from Ivoclar.

 

[Sevan P]

Sevan,

Thanks for the advise. I think you are saying...I need to "learn the software?"
I'm kind of chomping at the bit, it has been a long road getting this thing up and running
I'm just interested in seeing where to start on this type of case. We do a lot of this type of cases and most are acrylic on Titanium bar. The acrylic does not hold up, especially when you have a heavy bruxer.

I think we purchased all the modules available, with the exception of the ortho module, when we got the system.
We purchased the system from Ivoclar.

Yes learn learn learn learn learn.

If you bought all the modules your annual license is way over 3200.00 a year. That's a heft tag for a system you just got and don't know how to run.

 

[TheLabGuy]

I'd be asking where you bought the 3Shape from?...support is the most important thing in buying a scanner in my opinion. I'm not saying you shouldn't of come on here and asked this question, but this is more of something you 'learn' and do with your support company that you bought your 3Shape from.

 

[CoolHandLuke]

you gotta learn to crawl before you run, and what you have there is a marathon.

this will not be over quickly. you will not enjoy this.

 

[Marylandfarmer]

Thanks for all the great advise... Just thought someone else had done this out there and may have some advise.

 

[Sevan P]

Thanks for all the great advise... Just thought someone else had done this out there and may have some advise.

Oh we have, info like this doesn't just fly out of our mouths. Just cause the industry is going digital doesn't mean we can't have secrets...........................

I think you have enough to get you started with.

 

[2thm8kr]

That's closed system mentality.
I am not saying give up all of your hard earned tricks, but helping a fellow tech out trying to learn the software on their own is just good karma.
It's not the 70's and 80's anymore.

 

[user name]

That's closed system mentality.
I am not saying give up all of your hard earned tricks, but helping a fellow tech out trying to learn the software on their own is just good karma.
It's not the 70's and 80's anymore.

We have secrets, so dont tell anybody.

But if you do, just tell them not to tell anybody.

 

[cadfan]

here some appetizer i think the 3 Girls go the same way


http://www.zirkonzahn.com/us/galleries

 

[Sevan P]

That's closed system mentality.
I am not saying give up all of your hard earned tricks, but helping a fellow tech out trying to learn the software on their own is just good karma.
It's not the 70's and 80's anymore.

You want me to write a step by step in full detail? Come on man, If you just got the software and are trying to do advanced cases straight out the cage with no knowledge on what to do. Don't ask for help. I not going to tell you how to set the order up and then mark the margins and set die spacer and so on. I think I gave him enough info to get started.

Like THELABGUY said that's what retailers are for. I know its not the 70's or 80's or even the 90's but that like coming on here with out going to dental tech school and asking how to wax up a pfm coping and invest and how to cast and stack. LOL there are certain things that still need your effort to learn first then reach out for help.

If that's the way we all are going then we are all in for a hell of a ride and it ain't going to get better.

 

[CoolHandLuke]

im not writing it up because i am incredibly lazy and right now not motivated to provide this level of assistance to a complete new player in the game.

excuse me for thinking a fundamental familiarity is the basic level of skill before reaching out for advanced - or intermediate - case difficulty help.

plus, it comes down to how much finished the design has to be and what the next stage is. if we're going full zirc with pink porc thats one thing. if no pink thats quite another.

the basest way to do this case is to make the order read 1 single coping with a waxup, and make fantastic use of the morphing tool.

but while that will get the case done, it disregards all the pertinent technological and software advances since 2007.

i can think of three ways to get this case done with 3shape, 2 of which will be technically very frustrating, and 1 of which demands him to buy the Gingiva module.

i really hope that doesnt make me sound like a douche.

anyway, there are two ways to force the scanner to NOT ask you to make dies for each tooth - first is to mark the scan as unsectioned. the other is to add digital gingiva in the order form. if that's not an option open to you, the process will be long and tricky and prone to two kinds of error, user error, and ignorance based on user error. youll get a product that was designed correctly but doesnt exactly fit and you won't understand why.

heres some tips though; fill the screw holes with something before you scan, preferably not sealed with wax but a short extended dowel that pokes out a bit - enough to see the angle of the screw hole. if the bar and prosthesis will be bonded then disregard previous and just fill the holes with anything.

obtain a can of Tinactin. it makes excellent scan spray. short bursts.

this particular order you will have to mark as Double preparation. DO NOT move the model off of the scan plate when removing the waxup from the bar. you MAY remove the whole plate from the scanner though. that's fine. just not the model. there will be no way to re-align them afterward.

 

[2thm8kr]

* nevermind

 

[grantoz]

we have all done courses spent big money in training and R&d and to just spill our guts is a little unrealistic.To quote monty python this is how you play the flute 1st blow in one end then run your fingers up an down the holes.No mater how much we tell you on this thread you aint going to achieve much unless you get serious help lots of tears and you just plain slog it out.

 

[RJS8669]

First off - why the heck did you make that frame? Would have been much more simple to go full zirconia with ti bases. Jus' sayin'...

 

[TheLabGuy]

Like I said, coming on here and asking the question is fine. Providing a detailed step by step process would take hours to write up, let alone all the time it took the original person to figure out a repeatable consistent protocol that works. Many of us on here know how to do this on here, even me. However, it took me months to figure out a protocol that worked out consistent and up to the quality we were desiring. There is no shame in not sharing this because lets be honest...it would take a very long time to do it so a novice would be able to follow it and duplicate it. Hence, start where most of us started...with your reseller of where you got 3Shape from. They will get you started on the first steps and then continue from there.

 

[Tayebdental]

I am also interested in courses for Izir type implants supported zirconia overdenture for Exocad. So thirty nine years as a ceramist / crown and bridge tech and dental lab schools education would't it qualify me to learn these secrets?. Any good courses please inform me. Thanks

 

[zero_zero]

I am also interested in courses for Izir type implants supported zirconia overdenture for Exocad. So thirty nine years as a ceramist / crown and bridge tech and dental lab schools education would't it qualify me to learn these secrets?. Any good courses please inform me. Thanks

It's easier than you'd think, I started by watching a few youtube vids (reseller had no idea how to do a prettau bridge) then worked the whole protocol out in a weekend. Just google: "youtube video: exocad + prettau + bridge"
It should give you the starting points then experiment/learn from there...

 

[2thm8kr]

* nevermind

I don't recall asking you to write a step by step, I wouldn't write one either. Certainly the responsibility is on the end user and whom ever they have a contract with for support. Obviously their reseller support is pretty lame. What I take issue with is the comment "we do, it just doesn't fly out of our mouths". I doubt you, me or anyone else here learned every single thing we know about this crazy business on their own. " Call your reseller", seems to be the motto of 3Shape users here, heard it many times. Certainly we are not obligated to do sh!t to forward this industry. Let's all keep everyone relying on corporate to steer this ship.

Anyone here think you know something about what you are doing, mentor someone who truely wants to learn. You will help them and you will learn exponentially more and you are contributing to the future advancement of dental technology. Sometimes all it takes is putting the right jigsaw piece in the right place in someone's mind. The OP is obviously not a noob to CAD and can probably figure out some of the basic functions on their own in short time, throw 'em a bone.