Zimmer Encode 2023

[TheLabGuy]

Had a heated conversation with a Zimmer rep. today. I guess they changed the way Encode gets done 'again'. If anyone doesn't know, Encode is a just a fancy healing cap. It has special grooves on it so Zimmer knows how the actual implant is orientated correctly. Back in the day you would have to mount these up with a stratos using the Adesso mounting plates and send the case to them to place the implant in your stone model and make a abutment for the labs. They called that system Robocast, and if it worked, you were one of the lucky ones. Then they finally realized it didn't work so well, so they went around to some labs and went on this 'empowered' kick. It cost 5-10K to become a empowered lab and you have to use 3Shape, but then you could send scans directly to them to get a implant model. Now i think this program is still going on, but they have a new program now as well...called CAD, a cloud-based program and it's $249 per month. The rep got pretty chippy with me today, or maybe it was me that got pretty chippy because I told him for those prices...I'll just have the Doc remove the encode healing cap and place one of my free scanbodies and scan away. That way I don't have to deal with Zimmer or their inflated prices....plus, i've learned the hard way throughout the years the more folks that touch a case just allows for more ways for it to be screwed up. The rep. went on how he really wanted to give me a demo of the new CAD program and that zimmer doesn't sell the tapered titanium blanks to labs, you know, the proverbial blahh blahh blahh. I kindly told him let me know when you 'open' the system up, i'll happily jump on board, till then no way. Now tell me where I'm going wrong here? I'm sincerely asking because maybe I am...your thoughts?

 

[Andrew Priddy]

spot on.

i was about to say you could bump the price, but thats a dog chasing its tail

 

[doug]

We had the same issues, Rob. I told all of my docs that the fee for a Biomet or Zimmer was going to be $X.xx more than what our current fee is unless they took an impression with a transfer pin or scanned with the scanbody that we provide for free. Everyone except one doc is on board. He pays every month so we're good.

 

[LarryRDC]

I do like you mentioned above….I give them the scan bodies I prefer them use and tell them to remove the encode and scan. If they don’t want to do that , they can choose to send it elsewhere. Works out good..I don’t have to deal with it!

 

[Toothman19]

I just add the cost of an encode. Not that I do many of them. I also don't warranty it. Not my fault if the crown doesn't fit and the doc will be charged for a remake.

 

[grantoz]

i send the scan off to a lab that opens the encode for me they charge 250 bucks for the trouble i pass that directly on to the dentists.its funny how i see less and less of these cases oh well

 

[Brett Hansen CDT]

I have hated this system since I first encountered it. My opinion is that it may have had a place 15-20 years ago when the knowledge and confidence for dentists and labs on implant cases wasn't nearly as wide spread as it is now. Now its a totally unnecessary method of restoring implant cases. It's a solution for a problem that doesn't or shouldn't exist anymore. Luckily, we only see an Encode case about once every other month. I am glad I don't have to mount the models anymore. I can just scan the case in and send to Bellatek. Then I get back a model with an abutment that has little input from me as to the design. I think that costs us around $350 per abutment. We make sure to pass on all those extra costs to the dentist. I also inform any new dentists trying this method to expect a much higher lab bill that our normal screw retained crowns. I think we charge around $175 more per hybrid restoration for an Encode case than our standard hyrbrid restoration. That extra $175 gets you an inferior abutment design than what I can do through Atlantis or if I design the abutment myself. Great system!

 

[sidesh0wb0b]

Had a heated conversation with a Zimmer rep. today. I guess they changed the way Encode gets done 'again'. If anyone doesn't know, Encode is a just a fancy healing cap. It has special grooves on it so Zimmer knows how the actual implant is orientated correctly. Back in the day you would have to mount these up with a stratos using the Adesso mounting plates and send the case to them to place the implant in your stone model and make a abutment for the labs. They called that system Robocast, and if it worked, you were one of the lucky ones. Then they finally realized it didn't work so well, so they went around to some labs and went on this 'empowered' kick. It cost 5-10K to become a empowered lab and you have to use 3Shape, but then you could send scans directly to them to get a implant model. Now i think this program is still going on, but they have a new program now as well...called CAD, a cloud-based program and it's $249 per month. The rep got pretty chippy with me today, or maybe it was me that got pretty chippy because I told him for those prices...I'll just have the Doc remove the encode healing cap and place one of my free scanbodies and scan away. That way I don't have to deal with Zimmer or their inflated prices....plus, i've learned the hard way throughout the years the more folks that touch a case just allows for more ways for it to be screwed up. The rep. went on how he really wanted to give me a demo of the new CAD program and that zimmer doesn't sell the tapered titanium blanks to labs, you know, the proverbial blahh blahh blahh. I kindly told him let me know when you 'open' the system up, i'll happily jump on board, till then no way. Now tell me where I'm going wrong here? I'm sincerely asking because maybe I am...your thoughts?

i am 100% with you on this. their "super accurate" robocast is bovine scatology at best. they just drill a hole and glue in an analog. WTF is that?!?!

i happily offer a free scan body to any clients inquiring about encode....and the end result is nearly always the same. there are outliers, once a year someone will do that overpriced crap....and the next time they ask about the scan body.

 

[sidesh0wb0b]

We had the same issues, Rob. I told all of my docs that the fee for a Biomet or Zimmer was going to be $X.xx more than what our current fee is unless they took an impression with a transfer pin or scanned with the scanbody that we provide for free. Everyone except one doc is on board. He pays every month so we're good.

the price is nearly double for the headache of dealing with encode. and the turn around time is longer.

 

[sidesh0wb0b]

I have hated this system since I first encountered it. My opinion is that it may have had a place 15-20 years ago when the knowledge and confidence for dentists and labs on implant cases wasn't nearly as wide spread as it is now. Now its a totally unnecessary method of restoring implant cases. It's a solution for a problem that doesn't or shouldn't exist anymore. Luckily, we only see an Encode case about once every other month. I am glad I don't have to mount the models anymore. I can just scan the case in and send to Bellatek. Then I get back a model with an abutment that has little input from me as to the design. I think that costs us around $350 per abutment. We make sure to pass on all those extra costs to the dentist. I also inform any new dentists trying this method to expect a much higher lab bill that our normal screw retained crowns. I think we charge around $175 more per hybrid restoration for an Encode case than our standard hyrbrid restoration. That extra $175 gets you an inferior abutment design than what I can do through Atlantis or if I design the abutment myself. Great system!

i cant tell you how many times i sent a mounted case back in the day...and got charged extra for remounting after they cut off the adesso plate and remounted it. i pitched a fit every single time as my custom colored stone was replaced with some dirty nasty off white crap mounting with plaster everywhere.

 

[TheLabGuy]

I do like you mentioned above….I give them the scan bodies I prefer them use and tell them to remove the encode and scan. If they don’t want to do that , they can choose to send it elsewhere. Works out good..I don’t have to deal with it!

I really think that's where I'm at with these personally. I don't need more headaches in my life.

 

[LarryRDC]

It’s not rocket science here..if a client wants to scan the healing cap and use OEM Zimmer components and pay more, it makes no difference to me. But this workflow as it stands is too much of a pain. It would be much easier to have open libraries of the healing caps (used as scan bodies) for 3Shape/Exocad and tie them to their components, Instead of pi$$ing off and “deflecting” potential customers( like ones who would buy their parts!) Iike LabGuy, me, others The workfow would be easier and more accurate IMHO. I would think more labs/techs would be more receptive of this, as they would feel like they have more control over the design and quality of the the product they are offering.

 

[Al.]

I have a couple of Docs that keep sending me encode healing cap scans.
I forward the scans to Zimmer I think it’s Zimvee they design and send me back abutment and models.
For stone impressions I scan the models and send them the scans.

They want to keep using them ok fine but it costs them a lot more

 

[LarryRDC]

I guess there's a reason that we don't get requests for these that often
There's only like a million Zimmer clone options out there..

 

[RDA]

The Zimmer/Biomet rep in our area has been making a huge push for this "new" workflow of Encode. I am in agreement with what has been already stated in this thread, outdated system, overpriced, outside control of case, and increased turn-around times. From what I have seen in our market, the reps are catering to the oral surgeons and having them convince the restorative dentists that this is the way to go. After the implant is placed, many of the surgeons are clueless, as to what the procedures are to complete these cases.
I do the same method as Rob does, Here's your scan body doc, you're wlecome for the savings
.

 

[Car 54]

I'll be doing a Microsoft Team Meeting with a rep this Friday just to see what it looks like and is about. I think he mentioned the 249. per month is what it breaks down to, but it's all paid upfront for a year. He also said they offer a 3-month version to get a feel for it without committing to the 1-year plan. I believe that was about 370.00 per month. The more I thought about it, the more hesitant I am, but at least I'll see what it looks like and how the portal works and the workflow.

 

[Andrew Priddy]

i'm just going to keep saying no to a lot things.. this being one of them. i hated those little 3i tines would break off at the QC bench to go out.
ridiculousnessx10

 

[doug]

Welcome back, Al!

 

[rkm rdt]

Welcome back, Al!

I have a better chance of reading a post from AL than receiving an encode case.

 

[desertfox384]

I’ve lost patience with implant companies (or any company)making themselves gatekeepers, and to do this they always end up making things more complicated.
I gave itero a piece of my mind over their tier system not long ago (which I think they did away with recently) .

The model seems to be to get the doctor to buy in to x system and then they can screw the lab any which way they want if the lab wants to keep business. They know we’re over a barrel unless we start saying NO. I applaud you Rob.

I’m a patient easy going type but don’t back me into a corner, charge me exorbitant prices and over complicate my work day… It’s essentially extortion