Yellow Gold PFM ?

[amadent]

we have a accout of ours who wants to do PFM work with high noble yellow alloy (74% AU)
the alloy is roughly $1375 per ounce with specific gravity of 18
that puts lab cost around $70 a dipped coping with out being built up for proper support

How do I go about charging my account for metal with such a HIGH price tag?

Greg Amendola
MDT

 

[TheLabGuy]

I tell them exactly what you just did before that die ever hits the dipping pot. You'd be surprised how many sphincters are tightened when you lay it out for them the approximate costs before you even start. I still get requested it, but they aren't blown away with a 200 dollar alloy fee for a single coping. I see it more with metal occlusal's than copings though. I personally don't know of any clinical proof that shows PFM noble versus high noble is any better in the mouth, has anyone else?

 

[dmonwaxa]

I just got a request for a metal occ crn; havent seen it yet. But like Rob said, have that discussion before you start. Lab cost is 70, whats his gonna be?

 

[amadent]

. Lab cost is 70, whats his gonna be?

thats what i would like to know?

 

[dmonwaxa]

thats what i would like to know?

Greg, you have to decide what your markup is gonna be and what the cost to doc will be. But Rob gave a great example of what that cost may be. There are other posts on here containing great info on the very subject, you'll be very surprised.

@ Rob

I cant cite anything off the top of my head but, it is believed that HN alloys are more tarnish resistant and more burnishable wich are very desirable qualities......
You really should've paid better attention in school instead of that assistant...

 

[Hal2a]

Thats actually a great question, what is the average mark up of dental alloy ?

 

[rkm rdt]

I usually get a request for an estimate.

 

[charles007]

I usually get a request for an estimate.

What do you charge for an estimate ?

I was charged $40. for my estimate, to tell me my computer is not worth repairing ! A 3 year old desktop computer with very little use.

 

[TheLabGuy]

What do you charge for an estimate ?

I was charged $40. for my estimate, to tell me my computer is not worth repairing ! A 3 year old desktop computer with very little use.

That was a dumpster fee.......damn thing should of been sent to the smithsonian it was so old...lol You forgot to put a zero after that 3

 

[TheLabGuy]

Thats actually a great question, what is the average mark up of dental alloy ?

Between 20-30% is the norm. I'm sure you'd find variations outside that on this forum but if you took a poll, I would be surprised to see something different.

 

[odchamp]

myself i would double and a bit more for the material, blame the high cost of gold, makes emax look a much better alternative

 

[amadent]

Between 20-30% is the norm. I'm sure you'd find variations outside that on this forum but if you took a poll, I would be surprised to see something different.

Rob, I am sure you are correct with the mark up %
but only in this field would we be expected to buy something for $1000 and only make $300 on it

 

[TheLabGuy]

Rob, I am sure you are correct with the mark up %
but only in this field would we be expected to buy something for $1000 and only make $300 on it

.....and have that $1000 dollars tied up for two months in some cases, if you have a 30 day grace pay period and bill monthly.

 

[Mountain Goat]

I recently billed a Bright Gold XH metal occlusion designed crown for $460. I even called to give a heads up before casting.....doctor freaked out once he got the bill......he called me and lit me up.....then the next week he called to tell me my work was looking "chalky" and unglazed.....he was so pissed....he just had to try to stick it to me one way or another...lol.....guess it cut into his Bently payment, certainly the $460 cut into the money he could have put into fuel for his little ol' airplane. Poor Baby.

I don't offer yellow ceramic anymore.......Lava is the upgrade from PFM HN white in my lab.

 

[user name]

I must be rare. Other than rounding it up to the nearest dollar I dont charge a mark up. I figure Ill make money 'doing' my craft. Same with implants. I think Im doing very well financially and call me stupid (and Im NOT judging any one),but its a sketchy moral thing to charge for not doing anything. I dont inventory alloy trying to buy low.
It may seem like a heavy priced crown sometimes, but its a piece of their body. They probably dont bitch dropping the same amount on some jewelry.
I realize theres some lost opportunity having money tied up in alloy that could be earning in a savings account, but its also nice sending in my grindings before Christmas for alittle bonus cash.

 

[Mountain Goat]

I must be rare. Other than rounding it up to the nearest dollar I dont charge a mark up. I figure Ill make money 'doing' my craft. Same with implants. I think Im doing very well financially and call me stupid (and Im NOT judging any one),but its a sketchy moral thing to charge for not doing anything. I dont inventory alloy trying to buy low.
It may seem like a heavy priced crown sometimes, but its a piece of their body. They probably dont bitch dropping the same amount on some jewelry.
I realize theres some lost opportunity having money tied up in alloy that could be earning in a savings account, but its also nice sending in my grindings before Christmas for alittle bonus cash.

I agree....and practice much of what you just said, my mark up is just a bit over 10% with the shipping included, not a profit center there.....basically doing the account a "favor" doing PFM's these days......it is still gold and they don't seem to think they should pay for it.....no matter what the market prices are. Now they are getting $79 PFM's who know what the alloy really is....you can't pay me $79 to make a PFM ,I HATE METAL!!!!! would rather have my hair get caught in a lathe than do high volume PFM's. I didn't even care that he was pissed over the cost of the gold, he does Lava and Emax now.

 

[Mountain Goat]

Oh and these guys don't think of that nice crown as a piece of their patients body, it is an upgradable restoration with dental insurance.....nice thought though...

 

[TheLabGuy]

I must be rare. Other than rounding it up to the nearest dollar I dont charge a mark up. I figure Ill make money 'doing' my craft. Same with implants. I think Im doing very well financially and call me stupid (and Im NOT judging any one),but its a sketchy moral thing to charge for not doing anything. I dont inventory alloy trying to buy low.
It may seem like a heavy priced crown sometimes, but its a piece of their body. They probably dont bitch dropping the same amount on some jewelry.
I realize theres some lost opportunity having money tied up in alloy that could be earning in a savings account, but its also nice sending in my grindings before Christmas for alittle bonus cash.

I respectfully disagree. Some of my clients rely on my knowledge and background in what I've learned to even begin to start on their patient. I didn't spend tens of thousands of dollars and years in college to give that away and if it includes taking time out of my busy schedule to order a simple analog, I'm charging at least a 30% mark up for that. I will say though, if you charge on the back end (the porcelain job or crown per say) versus the front end (the parts),it evens out in the end anyways, it's just comes down to the description you put in the invoice line. Really no right or wrong way.

 

[Brett Hansen CDT]

I completely agree with Rob. Dentists rely on us for our experience and expertise with the materials we use in restoring their patient's smiles. We mark up all of the parts we buy for implants by 30%. When you consider the time I have to spend to familiarize myself with all the different implant systems and their parts(Straumann, Nobel, Astra, Sybron, Thommen, 3i, Zimmer, Southern, Imtec, Keystone etc.),30 % is very fair. I have had some doctors who request that I analyze the case after I get it and then decided which abutment to use to restore the case and then call them back and tell them what to order so that they can get around paying our markup. While this practice irritates me, it is rare and i go ahead and do it. The doctors who I have talked to about why we mark up parts end up understanding the practice and have no problems with it. Just ordering a part may not seem like "work," but it is a service that you are providing your dentist. You are saving them time on the phone ordering the part and time spent searching for the right parts for that case. We are also in a much better position to pick out the right part for that particular case than the dentist is.

 

[dmonwaxa]

@ Bret Hanson

How long does it take you determine the appropriate parts for a multi unit case and complete the order on the phone?