wire breakage.

[chief26]

I have 1 client that has some issues. There r periods of time where he has alot of breakages. Ive researched and found there r all diffrent stories behind each breakage. He wants anything that breaks repaired for free. Even when it so obviouse the kid took a hammer to the appliance. He tends to move teeth with the wire and has a heavy hand when adjusting the wire. I just redid a bow the pt recieved in feb that broke at the bottom of the loop and n feb it was the oppisite side. He tells the kid to eat with them n and gets upset with me if he has 3pts with broken retainers n a month. They can b from 6+ mos before or have a ret in 3pieces. Am i not making quality appliances? Hes been my client for 8yrs now. My retainers go rite n 90% of the time. He also does rpes w/ molar and premolar bands. These bands r never in the correct position on the tooth and ive had to reposition them. He had 1 rpe that didnt fit 3times. I asked him to let me fit the bands to the model and i havent seen one since from him. He is only a few yrs from retiring and if i can do something better, i would like too. I dont have this problem with any of my other clients. Help!!!!

 

[Kacey]

That would be so frustrating! I very very rarely receive any broken wires back. The few times I have, the staff told me upfront that the patient had stepped on it, smashed it, etc. I had one break that was my fault. I had re-bent the wires back and forth and they were weak. I remade that one for free, of course. One other time I had slightly nicked the wires with my burr and weakened it to the point that it broke on the patient. I think you would know if it was your fault, as I did. Not sure what I'd say to your client about those broken wires. You might just have to sit down with him and explain things to him.... i.e... if he's bending the wires, he's weakening them and they will be prone to break.

 

[chief26]

I have talked to him. I am a CDA,RDA and when i first started i worked for him part time. I even filled n for one of the girls a few days ago. I have worked chairside for about a yr longer then ive been making appliances. when i worked n an office lab i was chairside often. I am very confident that i know what im doing. I do ask myself "is there anything i can do in construction to help this situation?" Other then using a duraloy wire, which would increase the cost and he doesnt want that either..one i repaired twice i found out hes using to retract all the lower anteriors. If hes so hard on the bows should i use a diffrent size wire other then 032? If there is something i can do to make the situation better...id like too.

 

[Smilewire]

I have talked to him. I am a CDA,RDA and when i first started i worked for him part time. I even filled n for one of the girls a few days ago. I have worked chairside for about a yr longer then ive been making appliances. when i worked n an office lab i was chairside often. I am very confident that i know what im doing. I do ask myself "is there anything i can do in construction to help this situation?" Other then using a duraloy wire, which would increase the cost and he doesnt want that either..one i repaired twice i found out hes using to retract all the lower anteriors. If hes so hard on the bows should i use a diffrent size wire other then 032? If there is something i can do to make the situation better...id like too.

I wouldn't go larger than .032 I had a Dr that would request it and it would wear the teeth away. You can try TruChrome by RMO or Blue Elgiloy( Duraloy great lakes brand) but sometimes you need to remind them that these wires have limits and once exceeded you can not guarantee they will not break, you must charge him a repair fee for this and If you lose him I say you might be better off anyways

 

[MasterCeramist]

I am not an ortho lab but there is a lab near me that offers a replacement warranty for an extra charge on each appliance. If they break it and didn't buy the warranty they are out of luck. Might be something to think about offering .

 

[Kacey]

I only use .030 by Great Lakes. It's number 265-035 if you want to look it up on their site. Maybe the brand you use has something to do with it. You might give it a try. I bet your client is causing them to break, though. He's probably stressing them. You might even call Great Lakes and talk with them about your problem to see if they can suggest something. Keep us posted!

 

[chief26]

I use all great lakes wire and clasps....i have ordered from ose, the orthostore and dnyaflex n the past and was afraid it was the wire. So i only use great lakes wire...i normally use .032 for my bows...i have been using .036 on his lowers. I tried using .028 clasps on the lowers so the pts didnt occlude and he didnt play with the wires...but because its a thinner wire he grabs them and bends them back and forth swearing they r dead soft...they r great lakes. Its just a thinner wire, but because hes strong enough to bend it, it must be dead soft...i used them for over a yr before he noticed. Its really about the cost. Really, it comes down to im not cheap enough. I cant run a good business and give him a huge discount and remake every appliance that the kids break. He found a lab that is cheap and will remake all retainers, no questions asked within the 3 months. Hes had to do alot of adjusting upon delivering. These retainers r not made well. However, they r thick. Maybe thats what his patients need. I am under the impression that if the retainer is bulky the pt isnt going to wear it. Of course ive had him ask for remakes when the acrylic was broke thru a spot that was 5mm thick. I just cant win with this one. I just want to make a appliance that are durable, comfortable and functional. Not n that order....my acrylic runs between 2mm-3mm thick. Mayb thicker if its a multicolor design. U can see most of my work if u go to The Retainer Shop on facebook. I will take all the criticism u can dish out.

 

[chief26]

I consulted with great lakes about a yr or so ago. The last time he had a wave of retainer breakages. No pattern but my concern was the wire cause even if the pt had the retainer for a yr, if the wire broke he felt it was my fault. Great lakes said to use duraloy and charge him more. But, like i knew if i raised the price he would go elsewhere. He would roll over with a heart attack if i went that route....just raising my prices according to supply increases sent him n a quest for lower prices. Like i said before, i give him a huge discount.

 

[JohnWilson]

Stop being his bitch, run your lab like a business and not like a hobby shop and command the respect for the products you produce. If your walking the walk charge for it!

If your afraid of losing a client thats not your biggest problem.

Good luck!

 

[Kacey]

I looked at your fb page. You have some really neat designs. I like your Hello Kitty. I make my retainers pretty thin for patient comfort. It does sound like you're doing everything right. Is it just that one doctor who keeps sending you broken appliances? If so, I'd give him a limited time for free returns... maybe 30 days. If the patient breaks the retainer, then I wouldn't remake it for free no matter how short of a time it's been. You might just have to get tough with him. Give him a 'lab policy' sheet of info or something like that so he's very clear on what you're doing. Many dentists are just rude and arrogant and want something for nothing. It's your business, you set the rules.

 

[araucaria]

Wouldn't it be cheaper to do no work at all for this doc and give him 20 bucks for the post to send it elsewhere?
IMO put your energy into finding new clients, it's a business as John stated.

 

[chief26]

Thanks....i feel better....i just wanna make the best possible appliance. I would hate to lose a customer because i lost track somewhere. Im confident this is more his issue then mine. I just needed to hear it from colleagues. Thanks for the kick n the butt....

 

[Betalab]

I just wanted to add a side note in relation to the rpe's he sends you. I get really sick of making my clients look good by refitting the bands that they have placed badly so I took a stand. First a polite phone call saying that in most cases we reset their bands staples and pins to a more accurate placement. Followed by a returning of all cast models untouched by us for their approval to construct said fixed appliance. From this point on it is all their responsibility in relation to band placement and remake costs will occur. We found that a lot more care was taken and we saved hours on doing the orthodontists job

 

[Flipperlady]

If you aren't having this problem with other dentists then as stated before the doc is probably weakening the wire too much and it's breaking. I'd only give a three month warranty on these. You can either ask to sit in and see what's going on or be frank with him and tell him you have no idea what's causing this
and explain it might be from over bending or adjusting of wires. I'm sure it can be resolved and i would remian professional and willing to help out but after the 3 months is up you have to charge.

 

[lcmlabforum]

If that's the way he deals with you, I wonder how he deals with the patients.
Maybe they are so pissed with him they are destroying them just to spite him . . .
and if they are in small town and know how he gets upset, kids can get their
parents to give him a hard time only to have that redirected towards you.
LCM