Which sinter furnace? Infire HTC or Nabertherm...

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charles007

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Scott I wasn't talking about your oven, nor did I mention your name, or the name of the ovens you sell.. Loosen up brother.
If you remember Ceradent was talking about spending 7 to 8k on a used oven.. that's ridiculous. If someone is willing to spend that kind of money on a used oven, why not buy a new Sentra that sells in the range of $8900 to $9500.00 . That's not 5 to 7k more. But I guess he could buy 3 of your ovens for the price of one Sentra.
To be fair in my post, I did received one crown you milled for me several years ago that was badly discolored.. maybe it wasn't a oven problem huh.. Also received discolored crowns from other milling labs using expensive ovens ! Maybe the crowns you milled happened before you started using the ovens you use now, and also sell..The simple point I was trying to make is not buying cheap ovens, which can be name brand used ovens that are not cheap.... In other words, know your ovens well before buying..If you have a great oven that's priced as a best buy for the money, that's great, maybe I will need one in the future..
 
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Tayebdental

Tayebdental

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Check out the price of the dekema, and capacity of units, then tell me you wouldn't buy the Sentra.....
Hands down the Sentra is a better buy...
I know it is expensive but it is worth it, i like quality pruducts before the cost. The way i look at it, if i think small i stay small.
 
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charles007

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I know it is expensive but it is worth it, i like quality pruducts before the cost. The way i look at it, if i think small i stay small.
I'm not the right person to answer that question. I have learned a lot about ovens from many friends and that's why I said that. I can tell you even a small lab will want to have a back up oven. Dekema are nice ovens, but still cost alot more than the Sintra, and the Dekema cost as much as the larger Mihm Vogt, unless they lowered the price.
 
BobCDT

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Scott, Can you please help me understand your thinking (just trying to learn)? On one hand it's bad for one to buy an inexpensive mill but you promote and sell what I believe is the least expensive sintering furnace on the market. Are you inferring that we all need expensive mills, but when it comes to critical processing of the material we can cut corners? I find it strange that your insistent on high end mill but are so accepting of cheap sintering furnace. Why not have the best of everything?
For everyone else, we have always spent $30-60 a unit for materials for a PFG. Can someone explain why a $2-3 difference in zirconia material cost is a big deal?
Sorry i'm running off topic.
 
BobCDT

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I'm not the right person to answer that question. I have learned a lot about ovens from many friends and that's why I said that. I can tell you even a small lab will want to have a back up oven. Dekema are nice ovens, but still cost alot more than the Sintra, and the Dekema cost as much as the larger Mihm Vogt, unless they lowered the price.
I believe the bottom entry Dekema is more expensive than the large Mihm Vogt.
 
Tayebdental

Tayebdental

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Reading all sorts of posting here while there're informative they confused you further. Because there are self interest in these postings to promoting a certain pruduct. I came to the conclusion while cost in very important. Quality product, good costomer support from a reputable company that has been in business for a long time is far more important.
 
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Cbite Dental Products

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Hi guys, CAP and WM are friends. Personally I really like the company and all the folks that run it. Honestly I can't say nor do I think anything bad about them. I am not familiar with this furnace. However, the problem with front entry is uneven heat distribution. But, if the manufacturer put heating element in the door I would be more inclined to think the heat distribution has the potential for more even heat. WM may have done this in the design of the furnace. I don't know. This variation of heat in the chamber can be significant depending on the insulation and heating of the door. A front entry door with no heating element will likely have cold spots. Interestingly, the exterior of the chamber of the Mihm Vogt sintering furnace is cool to touch when the furnace is at peak temp. The heating elements (6) are evenly distributed in a round chamber for even heating through the entire chamber. Some of you may disagree, but, I believe 20-40 degrees variation in sintering cycle makes a difference. Here are what I consider MUST haves when looking at sintering furnaces.
1. Round muffle chamber. (Not square)
2. Bottom entry
3. Easily programmable and simple user interface (25 programs minimum)
4. MoSi2 heating elements
5. Cool exterior when program is at peak temp. (Not mandatory, save on power and likely provides more even heating)
6. Fast fire cycle capability.
For the most part to get all of this this in a sintering furnace your probably looking at $10K or more.

I also like my Kentucky friends, the company and all the folks that run it.
 
DMC

DMC

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It has worked great for the Germans for decades, and used ofr many scientific testing in other Industries.
That design has been proven to work over and over.
Seems to still be working for some reason and still being produced for use in all Industries that need heat in a little box?

It stabilizes at high temp and holds the heat pertty well, as seen by the slow cool down times.
The elements are not adding hardly any heat, once the chamber has reached the high temp.
We have Two meters on our furnace that confirm this as well. Voltage and Amps.
They show very little current being used at high temp hold times.

No elevator to break. Just a simple hinge.

The brick is used if you want o experiment at 1600C and higher....up to 1700C.
I like it, and it works....super cheap elements and can be swapped in 4-minutes with easy access.

Does any of this make sense?
You can have Two or Three of these for the cost of many other brands.
You do NOT need 25 programs. That is retarded Bob! LOL
 
BobCDT

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Scott, I agree, you don't need 25 programs. But it cost next to nothing for this option. Realistically, 10 is more than enough. I wouldn't buy a furnace with fewer. I guess we will just agree to disagree on bottom or front entry.
 
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Enjoying this "hot" oven discussion, but can't help but mention that if we think about this in 3-Dimensions...
... A front entry oven is just the same as a bottom entry oven on it's side.

Most likely, the door seal and insulation capacity is far more important than where the door is???
 
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shico999

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hi guys . I am small lab anyone have used sintering furnace for sale to start with it with good price thanks
 
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rookiee

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I would avoid Nabertherm. Dissapointed over "german quality". Maybe I got an apple but from the start furnace was pain in the ass. It came factory sealed with non working fan on lid. Somehow I had to find what was wrong and assemble one of electrical cables. Secondly one of connecting cables for one of the heating elements got burned out so I guess temp was not ok even controler said everything ok. We replaced cable on our own, waiting them to get back to me a few days and I had to remind them again what is taking so long. They've sent new cables under warranty. Then again same cable got burned again. We opened a furnace and change cable again and this time we also find a hidden wrench inside furnace. Then now an then zirconia is completely unsintered. Like furnace would have 800 degrees. First time this happened they said, oh, change heating elements. Right now furnace is year and half old, never used colors for zirconia just prestained and on average I would say 4 cycles per week (of 8 hours). Then, again they've checked the log file where everything was ok and said, do a cleaning cycle. On IDS I've spoken with one of their doctors who had no clue, like never happened before, no solution. Now of course furnace is out of warranty. And they say every furnnace is tested and proved. My has also label "proved" but was not functional from day 1, with a wrench in a belly! SO NEVER AGAIN NABERTHERM!!!
 
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luishcmartins

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Tried new Blazir from Shenpaz.
Cheap, excelent and easy touch screen.
Room for 90 copings os 60 crown.
Flawlessly 3 cicles a day.
Nice transluscency.
 

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