Which milling machine is the best for custom abutments ?

CoolHandLuke

CoolHandLuke

Idiot
Full Member
Messages
10,078
Solutions
1
Reaction score
1,411
theres a few things you need to know about those machines. Willemin Macodel make what are conventionally referred to as Mill-Turn machines. that is to say they are very highly engineered to turn the piece you are working on like a lathe, or mill the piece like a mill, or some combination of the two at once.

so they can make 1 really good part at a time.

this doesnt make any sense for someone who wants to be a production center. you want to make hundreds of parts at once. for that i suggest you do not look for solutions from manufacturers of Mill-Turn machines.

i think you would want something like DMG ultrasonic series with robotic loader.



fair warning however, one of these machines is significant investment. two of them is starting to encroach on the 7 figures.

these are what you will want if you desire to compete with Core3d.

if you just want to putz around making abutments from a puck, best of luck. you face enough challenges just cutting interface geometry that many of the abutment platforms must be forfeit because without a mill-turn they just cannot be produced.

so how much do you have to spend ?
 
CoolHandLuke

CoolHandLuke

Idiot
Full Member
Messages
10,078
Solutions
1
Reaction score
1,411
honestly though, this is a fantasy if you are not the kind of person who expects turn-key operation on something as complex as cnc machining.

you can't go from never-had-a-machine to milling-center by snapping your fingers.

and nobody who sells machines will help you do that. they expect you to work your machine, account for your downtimes, and maintain production even though you have a machine down.

i advise you to hire at least one person who already knows about cnc machining and digital work. not dental, but general cnc info. communicate with this person to make sure the parts you get from the machine are quality parts.
 
V

V.B

New Member
Full Member
Messages
9
Reaction score
0
honestly though, this is a fantasy if you are not the kind of person who expects turn-key operation on something as complex as cnc machining.

you can't go from never-had-a-machine to milling-center by snapping your fingers.


I'm dental technician and making custom abutments that part of my job, but I'm doing by waxing and finishing .
We have in Lab milling machine but for soft materials.
 
CoolHandLuke

CoolHandLuke

Idiot
Full Member
Messages
10,078
Solutions
1
Reaction score
1,411
if you can make an abutment without wax, you will be ready to try milling hard materials on a small desktop machine.

when get quick with that, evaluate how much volume you will need to pay off a loan for a mill worth 250k Euros.
 
V

V.B

New Member
Full Member
Messages
9
Reaction score
0
if you can make an abutment without wax, you will be ready to try milling hard materials on a small desktop machine.

when get quick with that, evaluate how much volume you will need to pay off a loan for a mill worth 250k Euros.

You talked about Axsys before.
Do you mean Versamill 5x200 ?
That machine cost around 100k $
 
CoolHandLuke

CoolHandLuke

Idiot
Full Member
Messages
10,078
Solutions
1
Reaction score
1,411
the answer to "what machine is best" is rarely a simple matter. there are good sides and bad sides to every machine out there, and again entirely dependent on who runs the machine and how.

the same is true for cars; the driver and pit crew matter as much as the brand of tire and motor. sometimes its Vettel, sometimes its Ricciardo who wins. depends on lots of things.

Versamill can be easier to use than Coritec machines. but Coritec may have more durable spindles.

at the end of the day the matter of which machine will be best, will depend more on your ability than the machines ability.

Al Morad and @brayks earlier in this thread are the reps for Axsys and they would be the people to talk to about pricing of a Versamill. they will ask all the same questions as I am doing now though. what do you want it to do. what are you prepared to buy into, because if you don't want to use NT premills, Versamill might not be the environment you want. if you expect to mill 12 instead of 6 at a time, thats more considerations.

so there really isn't an easy answer to "best" machine.

Production wise though, the bigger your machine is, generally the more productive you can be. it will be hard to get the same volume of an Ultrasonic, from a Versamill. thats just the nature of the beast. and for Ultrasonic, expect to pay upwards of 250k euros.
 
V

V.B

New Member
Full Member
Messages
9
Reaction score
0
the answer to "what machine is best" is rarely a simple matter. there are good sides and bad sides to every machine out there, and again entirely dependent on who runs the machine and how.

the same is true for cars; the driver and pit crew matter as much as the brand of tire and motor. sometimes its Vettel, sometimes its Ricciardo who wins. depends on lots of things.

Versamill can be easier to use than Coritec machines. but Coritec may have more durable spindles.

at the end of the day the matter of which machine will be best, will depend more on your ability than the machines ability.

Al Morad and @brayks earlier in this thread are the reps for Axsys and they would be the people to talk to about pricing of a Versamill. they will ask all the same questions as I am doing now though. what do you want it to do. what are you prepared to buy into, because if you don't want to use NT premills, Versamill might not be the environment you want. if you expect to mill 12 instead of 6 at a time, thats more considerations.

so there really isn't an easy answer to "best" machine.

Production wise though, the bigger your machine is, generally the more productive you can be. it will be hard to get the same volume of an Ultrasonic, from a Versamill. thats just the nature of the beast. and for Ultrasonic, expect to pay upwards of 250k euros.
Myr I
the answer to "what machine is best" is rarely a simple matter. there are good sides and bad sides to every machine out there, and again entirely dependent on who runs the machine and how.

the same is true for cars; the driver and pit crew matter as much as the brand of tire and motor. sometimes its Vettel, sometimes its Ricciardo who wins. depends on lots of things.

Versamill can be easier to use than Coritec machines. but Coritec may have more durable spindles.

at the end of the day the matter of which machine will be best, will depend more on your ability than the machines ability.

Al Morad and @brayks earlier in this thread are the reps for Axsys and they would be the people to talk to about pricing of a Versamill. they will ask all the same questions as I am doing now though. what do you want it to do. what are you prepared to buy into, because if you don't want to use NT premills, Versamill might not be the environment you want. if you expect to mill 12 instead of 6 at a time, thats more considerations.

so there really isn't an easy answer to "best" machine.

Production wise though, the bigger your machine is, generally the more productive you can be. it will be hard to get the same volume of an Ultrasonic, from a Versamill. thats just the nature of the beast. and for Ultrasonic, expect to pay upwards of 250k euros.

I'm agree Ultrasonic looks very cool machine. I'm pretty sure in the future I'll be have more like one milling machine... But now I just need start from little and I not expect that much work from beginning.
 
CoolHandLuke

CoolHandLuke

Idiot
Full Member
Messages
10,078
Solutions
1
Reaction score
1,411
i think your best move will be to talk with 3 people: Yenadent, Axsys, and Articon. these will be your avenues of support when your machine has issues you arent able to troubleshoot by yourself.

so pick the one that offers you the most/best support for your money.
 
user name

user name

Well-Known Member
Full Member
Messages
6,960
Reaction score
1,633
...and possibly talk to CHL about coming to work for you.;)
 
CoolHandLuke

CoolHandLuke

Idiot
Full Member
Messages
10,078
Solutions
1
Reaction score
1,411
can't afford me.

im not going back to C and B after 6 weeks as a tech developer. :)
 
V

V.B

New Member
Full Member
Messages
9
Reaction score
0
i think your best move will be to talk with 3 people: Yenadent, Axsys, and Articon. these will be your avenues of support when your machine has issues you arent able to troubleshoot by yourself.

so pick the one that offers you the most/best support for your money.
Thank you for helping .
 
brayks

brayks

Well-Known Member
Sponsors
Full Member
Messages
799
Reaction score
277
You talked about Axsys before.
Do you mean Versamill 5x200 ?
That machine cost around 100k $

Actually $99, 450 but look what you get...
Versamill can be easier to use than Coritec machines. but Coritec may have more durable spindles.
.

Actually I am pretty confident our spindles are more durable: Syoctec DC 3.0kW, 65Ncm of torque, hybrid angular contact bearings (radial/axial load) and 6mm clamp diameter. Very strong and durable...

3d35a719-5d7a-4fd8-bcca-6bfec8ad7e5a_zpswgjbq11x.jpg

70 Versamill 5X200's and counting...

Just sayin'...
 
Last edited:
CoolHandLuke

CoolHandLuke

Idiot
Full Member
Messages
10,078
Solutions
1
Reaction score
1,411
yeah i was just making an example of weighing pro's and cons. not stating facts. i am aware of all the outfitting you guys have done at milling centers.
 
D

Dentalklinikken

Member
Messages
1
Reaction score
0
Hi everyone
I am really impressed of the level of knowledge shared on this site
I am new on this site, and I am specially interested in a milling machine capable of milling customized titanium abutments, bars and framework for full arch bridges
I have experience with smaller milling machines as Roland and VHF
Our expected needs are now around 10000 units/year
Our lab is located on the Gran Canaria, and we are a bit isolated, therefore my main concern is a milling machine that is stabile and easily maintained and serviced
 
Travis

Travis

Nothing to see here
Staff member
Messages
7,224
Reaction score
323
Hi everyone
I am really impressed of the level of knowledge shared on this site
I am new on this site, and I am specially interested in a milling machine capable of milling customized titanium abutments, bars and framework for full arch bridges
I have experience with smaller milling machines as Roland and VHF
Our expected needs are now around 10000 units/year
Our lab is located on the Gran Canaria, and we are a bit isolated, therefore my main concern is a milling machine that is stabile and easily maintained and serviced
Welcome.
 
CoolHandLuke

CoolHandLuke

Idiot
Full Member
Messages
10,078
Solutions
1
Reaction score
1,411
Hi everyone
I am really impressed of the level of knowledge shared on this site
I am new on this site, and I am specially interested in a milling machine capable of milling customized titanium abutments, bars and framework for full arch bridges
I have experience with smaller milling machines as Roland and VHF
Our expected needs are now around 10000 units/year
Our lab is located on the Gran Canaria, and we are a bit isolated, therefore my main concern is a milling machine that is stabile and easily maintained and serviced
first of all, welcome.

second, lets run some quick numbers.

most businesses are only operating 5 days per week, and with 2 weeks vacation per year thats only 5 x 50 weeks, 250 days. 10 000 units translates to 40 units per day. i hope by that you are referenceing how many units in general you sell per year, because 40 abutments or 40 "full arch bridges" is a hell of a lot of volume.

if so, that's fine. lets setup some expectations for this machine specifically. what amount of volume do you intend to put this milling machine through? no doubt it will simply supplement your existing equipment instead of replace your current setups.

Gran Canaria is the island off the west african coast? the tourist photos look wonderful. i wonder who you could purchase something like a imes 350i from, on that side of the globe.
 
KentPWalton

KentPWalton

Well-Known Member
Full Member
Messages
1,789
Reaction score
265
It would be cheaper to outsource your abutments and bars in my personal opinion. The TIME you would spend plus extra money for CAM training alone you would never recover. The learning curve is great in milling metal. The cost of the machine, tools, and material would be hard as well to recover. Just make sure you have ALL of the facts before you start your venture into metal milling.

There are some great re-sellers of machines out there that offer great support, but generally they cost more. It would behoove you to pay for more because the support is worth it I promise! ***Find the re-seller with THE BEST support if you do decide on taking the plunge!!!***
 
Top Bottom