What to buy?

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rookiee

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Next year it's a plan of getting one milling machine. Original plan was to go on with used one but now I'm thinking rather buying a new one. At the moment my eyes are on imes icore 450i which is here in EU around 60k eur for the machine with dry/wet crco/ti milling options and cam sw.

The reason for opening this thread is if you guys have any more suggestions on stuff I should consider looking. I'm looking into 5 axis dry/wet machine in capable doing everything in the house. Including custom ti abutments etc. I like 450i because it doesn't take much space and it's allrounder I think. For the time being production is based on around 200 units/month, mainly crco, that's inhouse number and that number is my priority in business and financial plan. If we'll do some milling for other labs that'll be also great. I'm saying that just to let you see that we don't need industrial machine, just solid and reliable allrounder.

Second question is based on curiosity. I've spoken with a guy who also owns laser sintering machine. He said that from economical point of view for crco it's the best option. And I see that maybe he wasn't kidding. I can find LS unit for even more then 50% cheaper than milled if I outsource. I know these machines costs twice or more then milling machines but I would still like to know the production price for one unit (just material). I've made calculation for milling out of crco block and just material costs around 9 eur (just block plus burs). So, if anyone of you might know, how much metal powder is used for one unit or how much does material costs.
 
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rookiee

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Also I forgot, how many unit on average is milled from big round block? My dealer said 25-35, I found on imes icore website 40-45 which is quite large number IMHO.
 
Sevan P

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The 450i is a great machine, I had the pleasure to works with a 4axis 340i and that machine was a beast! Can only image what a 450i can do. I have seen them in action and they are amazing. Argen here in the San Diego, CA charges $16.00 usd for a SLM non-precious shipped i think. Obviously the more units you do in an order the more effective it becomes on cost. LS machines are very expensive, high maintenance and generally a pain. I would leave them to the people that have already dove into that market. Yes Cutting CrCo doesn't make as much cost effective since, might as well cut in wax then cast in non-precious (base metal). But milling CrCo saves the investing time, burn out time and so on, so it can be faster but now your tieng up the mill when you could have it milling other things like abutments and crowns.

Maybe others that cut CrCo with the 450i can chime in. What Cam software imes V4, V5 or sumd3D? Getting the right strategy to cut the CrCo fast and effective would make it more worth it, Hopefully they are able to get cut in or under 15min per unit.

Also I forgot, how many unit on average is milled from big round block? My dealer said 25-35, I found on imes icore website 40-45 which is quite large number IMHO.

What Material and what size disk 98mm or 100mm? Wax I can pack from 28-35 units in a 98mm puck. A mix of molars, bicuspids and so on. CrCo maybe, but the Imes runs a 3mm or 2,5mm roughing bur which means the offset is either 3 or 3.5 leading to a lot of CrCo waste, but being a 1:1 ratio, you could fit a good amount of units in a disk, depends on your nesting method really.
 
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rookiee

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Thanks for your infos! :) In Germany you can find SLM stuff from 10 eur and up which is really cheap comparing it to minimum of 20 eur per unit for milled one. That's way I asked about SLM machine and production. I won't buy it but still want to know what is the true story behind it. Material costs, maintance, number of units to make it profitable etc., just for my knowledge and to have some image about it in my brain database! :)

I haven't come to CAM sw yet since I'm still researching possible options and gathering all the infos. Maybe this is piece of cake for some techs or labs but this would be my first investment into cad cam field and I don't want to make a mistake and buy some crapy machine. Also would like to cut outsourcing things, mainly because it takes time. I need to wait at least two or more days to get things back instead having them out of the machine in few hours!
 
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Hi rookiee i don t know any other mill in that price range milling hard metal .soft with sintering yes but the price of the furnace comes on top and this time the blanks are more expensive
SLM is still cheaper in production but milled the wallthikness can be 0.3 slm 0.45 , slm you can create each form you want very thick parts sometimes have sintering distortion and the margin is a little bit longer because of the production processes you have to shorten ( Material 2-3 Euro inkl. electricity ) 700 K Euro for a eos 270.Milled nem or titan margin depend on strategie dead on maybe small work thinner walls thinner margin o.1 very smooth surface maybe 30-40 % less work to elaborate ask for the milling time for nem units ill think fullanatomie 40-50 minutes and at 200 units a month only nem its the limit imes told me maybe call them directly for an assessment
With 450 i you have all options real solid mill i wish i had one.
At the moment some small slm engines came out look like a laser don t know their price yeti slm 50

http://en.yeti-dental.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2&Itemid=129 SCROLL DOWN SLM 50

http://www.concept-laser.de/en/industry/dental.html

http://www.eos.info/dental SOME PICTURE AFTER PRODUCTION

and a French can t remember the name
 
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rookiee

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I've seen a machine from concept laser in action. Must say I was impressed what I saw.
 
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rookiee

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Is anyone here seriously milling crco on 450i? I've spoken with people who are telling me that spindle won't take large amounts of crco so that's why I'm curious how much will it take. As previously stated I would have around 200 crco units which can easly grow to 300, maybe even more. Would these numbers kill spindle in 450i? I'm buyin' machine for period of 5 years and would drill a hole in my knee if I had to buy new spindle every year or two.
 
Marcusthegladiator CDT

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Also I forgot, how many unit on average is milled from big round block? My dealer said 25-35, I found on imes icore website 40-45 which is quite large number IMHO.
450I=98mm blanks
10 or 11 molar copings; 15 or 18 bicuspid copings; 20 or 25 upper anterior copings; 35 or 40 lower anterior copings.
If you had a month of just milling lower anterior copings, youd have a rich month.
But in the long run, you will mill more posteriors.
Your average units from 10 and 12 mm blanks should be 20 as you will most likely fill them faster and with mostly posterior.
Your average units from 12 and 14 mm blanks should be 30 as you will most likey be nesting your anteriors in it.
Your 16+ mm blanks are going to be for full casts and bridges, and you will not fit quite as many in these blanks and find yourself with a pile of old blanks with small spaces with just enough room for 1 single unit, if you've found youve designed the right unit for it...
Save all your old blanks or at the least document how many units you fit in them. Then 6 months down the line find your average, if your happy with your average, your doing it right. Don't fret a little waste here and there, sometimes its necessary.
 
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