What printer to buy for RPD

Nik@BMDL

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Hi , I currently do Removable partial metal frames the good old way and have been waiting to jump into the Disgiral world for a few years now

I am about to finally take the leap into Cad Cam but have absolutely no clue about what I'm getting myself into except for reading on these forums past experiences of
Other users . Most info seems to be about personal preference which is fine but I'm more intrested in understanding from the time the file leaves the scanner ( I am set on getting the 3shape d850 or d900 for texture scanning as I see having the pencil marking on the screen would help) to printing and then what's involved to get it to casting stage

Example
Printer
Printer materials
Expansion settings
Investment used
Investment liquid or straight water
Surface tension breaking ie are you painting the plastic resin with fine investment or spraying debubbliser
Sprucing individual cases or multiple cases in one ring
Fitting issues ? Yes or no

Sorry for so any questions but any help from pole actually doing it is great!
 
JMN

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Greetings Earthling! Welcome!

I'm curious about the post mill or post print processing as well. I'm guessing surfectant and mix liquids as per the usual method being that the expansion management qualities of the ratio are at least as much to provide a properly oversized cavity for the metal blend's shrink froom cooling as anything else. Most of our metals are non-eutetic so it gets weird fast at casting temps.

As an aid to understanding what happens after the scan, may I suggest the following link. It is written for a cad/cam and cnc perspective, but is rather informative in history and low level facts.

http://hackaday.com/2016/11/11/an-introduction-to-cnc-machine-control/
 
Z

zahni

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Why not send the file for slm. You get your frames back check the fitting and polish it, finish. Of course it depends on the quantity you have.

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CoolHandLuke

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you have many options.

many printers are capable of printing a frame. as above, Digital SLM via argen may also be an idea you hadn't considered.

this post wont be much more helpful. for two reasons.

1, printing a frame is easy. high resolution, high quality printing is acheivable with the right budget.

2, even if you havea high quality printer the whole thing can be ruined with poor casting. its easy to say the machine didnt produce a good frame when your casting goes awry.

if you end up with resin based frames, use phosphate free investment. thats about all i can directly advise. i can't advocate one printer over another. results from everything will be slightly different. for example i have an DP3500 and an MP4500. the MP is set to lower quality to get faster units out of it. the DP is set to higher quality for the best prints possible (for gold and pfm),but the frames printed in the MP actually end up fitting better. post cast there is less finishing.
 
Z

zahni

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Don't know how many frames you have. But you should also think about the learning curve. If you are new to cad/cam it could be useful to think about it step by step. First the right software and scanner and get to know the work flow of the design. After you can think about the further process. Each element has a lot of different options.

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M

Makes Dentures

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How many frames do you do a month-- is your time and financial investment worth the return? How long until you actually turn a profit on a FW? Does your business model have room for this liability? It's all about the benjamins....
 
Nik@BMDL

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To answer that last two posts . I currently do about 250 cc frames per year and continually growing. About 200 are my own (I am a prosthetist or denturist and own 3 clinics 2 of which are Surgerys as well that I practice in myself. The rest are from local dentists . I don't outsource anything in my lab or clinics and run the lab solo as well .. I work 7 days and am looking into the future and digital seems the way to go .. I have very little debt on my books and feel that I either hire someone which is proving difficult as I am not about 2 hrs away from the cbd and see this as a way to increase efficiency in my workflow and also develop my skills in an ever increasing market I'm happy to spend up to 100k but think I could do it for less . I have booked my ticket for IDS Cologne 2017 and hope to jump on something there .
It's not about if I should but it has always been about when . My q's are more to the guys that are doing RPD's this way and if they feel generous to share some info that they had to bust themselves to figure out !
Fyi I have also done many hrs of research in direct metal printing but this ROI is a hell of a lot longer than resin printing . I think I'm about 5-10 years it may be better though so the learning curve you talked about previously would help if I decided on this in the distant future




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Z

zahni

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200 frames are not that much. I have used 3shape and have made some frames it works, but imo it's quite pricey. Back then we tried resin prints and also slm by outsourcing. We decided to go the slm because you get a almost ready metal frame back, minor adjustments and polishing, finish. Today resin printers are more developed and affordable. Just a few companies you might look at, Shera, Bego Asiga and also formlabs. There is a Facebook group regarding formlabs for dental perhaps also a way. Where are you located?

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Nik@BMDL

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Been busy and have not had a chance to reply
Business has grown and now output min 10 per week so about 500 per year

I have bought exocad software and DOF HD scanner but am still stuck on a printer and resin that people have had positive results with

So far I'm down to 3dsystems and stratasys are the bees knees in printing and everything else seems to be a compromise that people are willing to put up with because they are cheap

So IDS is 17 days away if nobody is willing to come out with options that have actually worked for them then I guess this will hopefully be my last chance before a decision is made My head hurts
 
CoolHandLuke

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so you dont want to print resin and cast. you want to print metal... ?
 
LuthorCorp

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Metal Printing is most likely easier but damn it is expensive. For printing I can tell you from experience that the Stratays Eden machines are a bit of a pain with frameworks. The support material is tough to remove without damaging the actual frame.

I use a Form2 printer with SG material to cast our frameworks and it works pretty damn good. There are a few tougher issues with cleaning up the design and the actual design itself to make sure it is snug fit and remains in ideal shape, however with some experimenting we have gotten it to a very good stage and are starting to move it to full production.
 
Affinity

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Why not blow everyones mind and stop using non-precious metal? Sell them on a PEEK or Juvora frame, with extensive proven medical use. Eliminate your printing, tweaking, spruing, investing, burnout, casting, devesting, fitting, polishing, remaking.... They only buy what you sell, and I can promise patients like it better. With all the technology we have why should a pt have to settle for an uncomfortable shiny metal contraption in their mouth, that breaks and bends?

..stepping off my podium..:Hello:
 
Z

zahni

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If you go to the IDS, why not scan a few cases and save your design on a few USB sticks. Drop them at all the companies you're interested and let them come back to you. They want to sell, so let them proof their promises. By the way there are a few dental companies selling the form 2 now, can't be that bad.

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Toto

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Why not blow everyones mind and stop using non-precious metal? Sell them on a PEEK or Juvora frame, with extensive proven medical use. Eliminate your printing, tweaking, spruing, investing, burnout, casting, devesting, fitting, polishing, remaking.... They only buy what you sell, and I can promise patients like it better. With all the technology we have why should a pt have to settle for an uncomfortable shiny metal contraption in their mouth, that breaks and bends?

..stepping off my podium..:Hello:
Replying to this in 2021 😄 after enquiring about this I see the Peek puk costs about $400
and only one frame could possibly be made out if it - making it too expensive ?
Any solutions in 2021 ?
 
bigj1972

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Replying to this in 2021 😄 after enquiring about this I see the Peek puk costs about $400
and only one frame could possibly be made out if it - making it too expensive ?
Any solutions in 2021 ?
Print pattern and cast. There hasn't been an "advancement" in the last 5 years. Save your time, money, and frustration. Just outsource
 
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