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    What is your Opinion on Roland DWX-51d

    Discussion in 'Dental-CAM' started by kakismitchell, May 5, 2018.

    1. kakismitchell
      Breezy

      kakismitchell Member

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      Hello everyone,
      would like to know what is your opinion on the Roland DWX-51 in comparison with a DWX-50. All input will be very appreciated.

      Thank you.
       
    2. Sevan P
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      Sevan P Well-Known Member Full Member

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      DWX-51 with Hyperdent and Sum3d you mill anterior bridge horizontaly on the disk with the c-clamp design. I would go 51 over 50 any day, built with ball screw drives on the axis instead of a rubber belt. Just overall a better choice between the two. I don't use either of them but if I had to choose it would be the DWX-51D.
       
    3. Holy

      Holy Member Full Member

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      DWX-50 is very hard to keep it clean and only has 5 tool pockets.
      I wont even use DWX-50 unless it is free
       
    4. TheLabGuy

      TheLabGuy Just a Member Full Member

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      51D, you can change a lot of the parts yourself, much more user friendly...smaller footprint as well.
       
    5. RCKSTR
      Relaxed

      RCKSTR Well-Known Member Full Member

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      The 50 actually uses steel cables under tension for the axis drives, not rubber belts. The cables have a tenancy to stretch over time and require periodic re-tensioning. The 51D is far superior with the ball and screw drive. I've had both and I prefer the 51D.
       
    6. kakismitchell
      Breezy

      kakismitchell Member

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      Thank you so much everyone, the consensus is 51D, make sense :)
       
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    7. brayks

      brayks Well-Known Member Sponsors Full Member

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      You should really consider our Versamill 5X-300D.

      For about the same price as the 51D you really do get a far superior machine and of course our expert support.

      For $28 245, in addition to all the construction features of the Versamill family (heavy frame, larger dia. ballscrews, more powerful spindle, linear guides, closed loop drives, built-in high-speed machine control, etc.) You get everything you need to get up to speed as quickly as possible:
      • Versamill 5X-300D Precision Dental Machining Center.
      • hyperDENT Dental CAM Software Solution.
      • Soft Tooling Starter Package.
      • Quatro iVAC2 Dust Collection System.
      • Classroom Training
      Check it out:
      Versamill 5X300D Crown and Bridge Special.jpg

      https://www.axsysdental.com/documents/Versamill 5X300D Crown and Bridge Special Low.pdf
      https://www.axsysdental.com/Versamill5X-300D.html

      Read the datasheet
       
      Last edited: May 21, 2018
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    8. Jimmy Lindsey
      No Mood

      Jimmy Lindsey Member Full Member

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      51d with hyper dent has been very good to me I run 2 at my office. Never had big issues small stuff somehow worked itself out. Everything you can change out on your own spindle to belt
       
    9. Wainwright
      Amused

      Wainwright New Member Full Member

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      I like the DWX-51D
      [​IMG]

      My previous team sold quite a few and very rarely had any complaints. Low maintenance and user replaceable parts made it better than the previous generation.

      If you push or buy during an event like LMT Midwinter, West or East you will get the best price.

      Good luck
       
    10. Jesse Zamarripa

      Jesse Zamarripa Member Full Member

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      If you are doing a 5 year loan on the roland you may want to consider another machine. The likelihood the equipment will last the duration of your fianance agreement without replacing the spindle multiple times and refurbishing the machine is minimal. Keep in mind there are many other machines that do not require this extensice maintenance. If you are paying cash upfront on a very good price then the roland may be a good option because you are paying for current, actually old, technology., but the mill will produce immediately. If you are paying 5 years then you are actually paying for very old technology at the end of 5 years with minimal to no resale value. There are many other options on the market now, unlike 5 years ago when roland was king. Just my thoughts
       
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    11. biodentg
      Relaxed

      biodentg Active Member Full Member

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      "There are many other options on the market now" Can you please name a few options? Thank you
       
    12. Wainwright
      Amused

      Wainwright New Member Full Member

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      You can say that about almost any milling machine. If you expect to buy a milling unit with no maintenance for five years maybe it's best you outsource your work to a milling center and not worry about it. To replace a spindle on a Roland is about $2,000 and typically those spindles run for about 2,000+ hours, 20 mins a unit that works out to be 6,000 units for $2,000 or about 33 cents a unit (not to mention the Roland warranty covers the first spindle in the first two years of ownership). I've used and sold Amann Girrbach, Roland, imes-icore, VHF, and Sirona. Trust me, no machine is perfect.

      Lastly, I'm not sure what you are referring to when you say "buying old tech" milling by nature is pretty old technology. Does it cut zirconia crowns and other indications with consistency and accuracy? Yes, it does. Almost every machine on the market does.
       
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    13. Jesse Zamarripa

      Jesse Zamarripa Member Full Member

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      Buying a car that offers a free engine within the 2 years isn't comforting to me. Since the Roland and all of these machines are the same cost of a new car it might be wise to consider another option. Plus if you are a small business a milling machine will more than likely be the biggest purchase of your career. All the other equipment mentioned in your post have spindles that will last far longer than two years if you take care of them, meaning there is no expiration of the spindle after a certain amount of hours. I'm not downplaying the ROI or the effectiveness of the Roland, just saying there are other options out there and you should be aware of those. At trade-shows you see people looking to upgrade from Sirona, Roland and VHF, not so much Amann Girrbach or Imes (the machines you mentioned). If your a small lab looking to grow with the technology then there are other options besides the roland. Please keep in mind, I have too sold and used all of those machines besides Sirona and VHF.

      Jesse



       
    14. Wainwright
      Amused

      Wainwright New Member Full Member

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      I know the weakness of all the machines mentioned and could easily poke holes in your logic. I do not want to say anything bad about any specific company, so I won't. But let's just say the cost of ownership Roland vs all others is LESS. The narrative you are driving is false.
       
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    15. Jesse Zamarripa

      Jesse Zamarripa Member Full Member

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      right back at ya buddy. very false as well
       
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    16. RCKSTR
      Relaxed

      RCKSTR Well-Known Member Full Member

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      I went through 6 spindles on 2 imes 350i's, at 5K a piece. Just because you pay more for a machine doesn't mean its going to last longer. You see a lot more 2000's civics on the road than you do range rovers of the same era, there's a reason for that. The 51d is by far the most economical choice and has a great ROI
       
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    17. Wainwright
      Amused

      Wainwright New Member Full Member

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      I don't sell Roland or any other milling machines. You do. People reading this thread should know that.

      That's all for me folks, I hope everyone has a great Memorial Day Weekend!
       
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    18. Jesse Zamarripa

      Jesse Zamarripa Member Full Member

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      People should also know that you sold as many Roland's as anyone else in the country and you just stopped doing so recently. Like I said, nothing against Roland, just do your research before making a decision. I'm not talking about what I sell, it is irrelevant to the topic

       
    19. brayks

      brayks Well-Known Member Sponsors Full Member

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      Sorry, I just can't remain silent here.

      "...the cost of ownership Roland vs all others is LESS..."
      Really? Quite a bold statement and one that is absolutely NOT true!

      Also, Jesse is in no way driving a false narrative, he is spot on in his assessment. We do very well in this market (upgrading users of existing mills), very well indeed.

      The same holds true with old technology. It's pretty simple: technology advancements in terms of motion control systems, guide systems, spindle drives, motors, work and tool holding, high-speed machine controls and more all have a significant effect on machine operation, reliability, consistency, maintenance, etc. not to mention restoration quality (restorative margins, fit, finish, etc.) and post-machining hand-work.

      If technological advancements didn't make a difference there would be no need for new products, component updates/upgrades, or for a user to, in this case, purchase a DWX-51- just get a DWX-50.

      Frankly, it surprises me that anyone involved in supplying digital dental manufacturing solutions would make such claims, re: cost of ownership or technology.

      I started in the industrial machine tool business 1978 with extensive experience in service (machine and control), applications and sales. Seeing this back and forth makes me shake my head...no wonder machine sales rep's in this business get such a bad rap...

      I will say however, that while the Roland at one time was the most economical choice, that is no longer the case- particularly considering the release of the versamill 5X-300D as previously mentioned.
       

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    20. cadfan
      Amused

      cadfan Well-Known Member Full Member

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      1.8 rebuild maybe some girls pulled you over the table and yours are done with 2 hours ?? you milled only soft stuff ???
       
      Last edited: May 26, 2018 at 2:33 PM

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