What finnishing stones are you using

[molarmaker]

Drs want me to change porcelain to Noritake what metal do you use they want HN what stones are prefered in past I've had to experiment now that internet is here thought I could pick your braines

 

[rkm rdt]

I never use stones on high noble alloys.Carbide burs only.

Another neat thiing about the internet is that punctuation marks are free.

 

[Wyolab]

I use Noritake EX-3, and Penceram 52-sf. I am thinking about switching to Penceram 40 though, I have been told it doesn't oxidize as dark. Noritake isn't very silver sensitive so don't worry about that, unless you have other systems that will react to being fired in the same furnace as alloys containing silver. Stones don't seem to cause a problem if that's how you like to finish your metal. I use a heatless mizzy to grind down the sprue, then I have used Blue Dolphin green stones, even shofu dura-white without problems. Any stones should be fine, just don't use the same stone on your NP alloys as yuor HN alloys. I do let them soak in distilled water in the ultrasonic for five minutes after metal finishing, then blast them with the steamer before degassing. Hope that helps.

 

[BillyB]

Hi

If you're going to use EX-3 keep the firings to a minimum - especially on silver free PD metals.

Just a suggestion.

 

[desertfox384]

Depending on how HN it is - The really soft melt in you hand gold will need a carbide from what argen told me. I dont use that metal anymore though - Use white stones (shofu) on my middle of the road metal and a brown stone for NP (we buy from zahn). Your metal supplier should be able to tell you what works best for each metal.

 

[paulg100]

We used EX3 for a good few years before switching to inline.

Nice ceramic, but we did find it pretty fussy with the metals. Mainly with NP, precious was not so much a problem.

Used to be lots of problems with little blows from the NP metals until we found the right one.

 

[charles007]

Stan,
Argens Argedent 52 is a great alloy to use, and my favorite white HN, plus easy-fast metal finishing and polishing on those metal occlusals. Between medium to almost light oxide. Its 52Au,16ag, and "26 pd " with lower pd to keep the cost down. Euro is another one to check out. Both have a lower density # than many other alloys in that range. For some odd reason, Noritake likes silver.

I use Dedeco Koolies -White Wheels-assorted sizes, Pink stones-inverted Cone shape to finish around the margins, old ones to finish, and SS.White fg "Express Line" carbides. Carbides will give a better bond and less chance of cross contamination.
Anything in Aluminum Oxide will work, as to not contaminate any alloy.
Stan, your as old as dirt like me, you already know everything I've written. Maybe some of the younger techs will benefit from my wasted words.
Charles

 

[AL1]

I use argens euro, its 10% silver. It should work on almost any porcelain.
As far as finishing goes, I was told to use stones that are binded with aluminum oxide, such as shofus pink stones, also red flash disks work great.

 

[molarmaker]

Paul I use inline now at first I found it the most aggrevating s**t ,talked with their tech dept.lots of advise that didn't help much,I figured out it was the liquid I was using but still the answer didn't come fast enough and lost accounts and reputation. It happened once before in the 1977 when they came out with Will Ceram I went to their clinic the world class tech said it was kick me as much as Ceramco you could not mess up this stuff. I guess I invented steam tears. Went to Panky and that was what they were using I asked the instructor did they have any problems he said no but no ceramics were compleated .That is why I asked such a basic question.Another answere Charles gave me was stay away from water with the paste opaque. I was cleaning my brush with a damp paper towel thanks for all the responce got to go to jury duty.
Stan

 

[Wyolab]

Good tip on avoiding a wet brush with the paste opaque, it really makes it thin. When you do Noritake NP crowns put down a layer of the BA opaque first to help reduce any problems with greening. I have only been at this for a few years, but I have had good luck with Noritake. I bake things a little cooler then the tech books settings, and that has helped. Feel free to get in touch if you run into any problems.

 

[paulg100]

funny how one person gets on with a ceramic and another dosent.

Inline has worked superb for me since day 1.

Used with tap water, distilled water and build up liquid and all have worked without any issues.

I would go as far as to say this is the best bonded ceramic ive used in my short 20 years as a tech.

Anyhow noritake was a good robust ceramic so if that works for you then thats great. very good price also.

 

[rkm rdt]

May I suggest using a plastic instrument to apply paste opaque.In fact I have found you can achieve complete coverage with one application and bake. You can "draw" the material quite thin and it will not pool.
I use Noritake as well.

Just for the fun of it try skipping the degas cycle,you'll find it is completely unecessary.Just sandblast with alumina oxide , opaque and fire.

I have been doing this for 15 years now.

 

[molarmaker]

Paul you are so right about what works in one and not in another .Then why don't Manufactor's visit these labs that have so much success with their products and find out the do and don'ts to pass along. Thank God for DLN.
RKM tell me you are degasing Taladium and NP Ive gotten away with it using SP and HP
Stan

 

[rkm rdt]

I use noble and high nobel alloys. I don't use np anymore however I wouldn't degass it either if I did.
I guess you could argue that any opaqued alloy will "degass" on the inside of the coping and through any unopaqued lingual band.