What features would you like in a burnout oven?

dfshorn1

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Hello all:

I am designing a burnout oven to complement our porcelain and pressing furnaces, and I would like your prespective on burnout ovens. I have ideas that will improve the performance of the oven- reducing ring cracking, improving heat distribution, etc., but I would like to have input from you, the people who ultimately use the machines! (I have serviced burnout ovens for years and so I am familiar with pretty much every burnout oven out there; however, my understanding of them is from a technical point of view, and I would like to hear from those who use them in their work!).

So, what comments do you have about the burnout oven you use? Are you happy with the performance it gives you, or is there room for improvement?

Also, are there any features that you think would be great to see on a burnout oven and that would benefit you but aren't on available models?

Thank you for any input you have to offer!
Kind regards,

Dan Serrago
IBEX Dental Technologies
 
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JohnWilson

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I really like my Ney Vulcan's they have been a solid choice for us.

One thing I think would be really very beneficial is if some how a pre exhaust charcoal filter could knock down the burnout gas smell.

We have our units mounted up high on a shelf with a commercial wall exhaust fan that sucks the smell along with my ac out which I hate.

Another feature which would be great is if it had the ability to have a wireless card and an IP address so it could send me a text in case the power goes out. Nothing drives me more crazy than when I set up a program to do run in the middle of the night only to have the power shut the thing off. Would be real cool to be able to log in and remote turn on. Would be great if it could communicate with my pressing oven as well and tell it to cycle on as well so that its perfectly warm and ready to go when I walk in the lab :)

OK how many of you think I am nuts?
 
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dmonwaxa

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I really like my Ney Vulcan's they have been a solid choice for us.

One thing I think would be really very beneficial is if some how a pre exhaust charcoal filter could knock down the burnout gas smell.

We have our units mounted up high on a shelf with a commercial wall exhaust fan that sucks the smell along with my ac out which I hate.

Another feature which would be great is if it had the ability to have a wireless card and an IP address so it could send me a text in case the power goes out. Nothing drives me more crazy than when I set up a program to do run in the middle of the night only to have the power shut the thing off. Would be real cool to be able to log in and remote turn on. Would be great if it could communicate with my pressing off as well and tell it to cycle on as well so that its perfectly warm and ready to go when I walk in the lab :)

OK how many of you think I am nuts?

Those are all great ideas John, maybe networked and bluetoothed? BTW how about back up power supply generator? Genius same as nuts.
 
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doug

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If it's gonna have the ability to send you a message it should send you one letting you know that it's only 5 minutes until the burnout time is complete. I like the charcoal filter concept.
 
Gdentallab

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or the ability to continue its cycle by itself when power failure occur.
It's an option in my ceramic furnace. And the exhaust is a good idea john.
I have a jelrus pdq , and very satisfied with it. Fast reliable, easy to use, easy to repair. That's what i ask for.
 
Wyolab

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Features are great, but I am all about function and price. If you put too many gadgets on things it seems that's one more part to malfunction and it adds to the price. Can you make two ovens? I really like the idea of a networked oven, but I am not sure how much more it would cost, the charcoal filter is a fantastic idea. As a new business owner I am still pinching pennies, but down the road I might pay for more bells and whistles. Like Ivoclars ovens, I wouldn't pay extra for a built in MP3 player and color screen. Down the road who knows, I may want to listen to music when I go jogging and I could just strap that bad boy on my back.
 
dmonwaxa

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Features are great, but I am all about function and price. If you put too many gadgets on things it seems that's one more part to malfunction and it adds to the price. Can you make two ovens? I really like the idea of a networked oven, but I am not sure how much more it would cost, the charcoal filter is a fantastic idea. As a new business owner I am still pinching pennies, but down the road I might pay for more bells and whistles. Like Ivoclars ovens, I wouldn't pay extra for a built in MP3 player and color screen. Down the road who knows, I may want to listen to music when I go jogging and I could just strap that bad boy on my back.

Resistance training training all the way baby, but the oven might only make you hot and bothered.....:D:D:D
 
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dfshorn1

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Burnout oven features

John,
It would seem by the replies that I have read that the burnout ovens currently available seem to meet most of the needs of its users. I do agree with the need for power failure recovery. That is a must and will be on my controllers.
I have designed remote access capabilities into my porcelain and pressing furnaces. While primarily for remote troubleshooting, it would also allow one tech to run/ oversee muliple furnaces, (2 to 256 furnaces). I ran this idea to many of the largest labs in the country and NO ONE was interested. My additional software cost was a single $250.00. Money was not the issue. They just did not care for the idea. The added expense in a burnout oven makes it impractical.
Activated charcoal filters are not a new idea and have been around for decades. They are expensive to manufacture and as a result, most lab owners would rather put up with the smell or use extraction fans. I am researching what the cost impact would be for a filter system. The door on my oven will open downward, not to the left, right or upwards.

I agree with wyolab, I am not into all sorts of bells and whistles. Many labs won't use them anyway. Most technicians that I have talked with do not use multiple stages anymore. So, how many stages should I have? I am looking at only 2 stages at this time. Also, what about heat rate? The larger ovens offer heat rates to 50C / 72F degrees per minute max, but can only delivery that rate to about 1000 - 1200F or so, than they fall off to about 20 - 25F p/m by 1600F. Does this really matter to anyone and why?
And last, as wyolab mentioned, price. Like my porcelain and pressing furnaces, I intended to challenge the current price levels of both sizes of burnout ovens for the quality received.
I am planning to have some prototypes ready to show in Chicago. Here is your chance to give some input.

Daniel
 
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jimi

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look into downdraft exhaust fans incorporated into the furnace. They are many times more efficient at eliminating smoke, and odors than reagular commercial exhast hood. They also prolong the life of thermocouple and heating coils by eliminating buildup of fumes in furnace cavity. google Orton exhaust fans for more info.

I like a guillotine door, so furnace can be on either side of casting machine.
 
jimi

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expanding on the above^, i prefer guillotine door because opening down or to the sides produce a lot more heat for the furnace hand, and opening to the sides reduces the freedom of movement of furnace hand.
 
dmonwaxa

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I think even when an exhaust is incorporated the seal of the door with the furnace body is critical in eliminating fumes and odor.
 
araucaria

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I would like your prespective on burnout ovens. I have ideas that will improve the performance of the oven- reducing ring cracking, improving heat distribution, etc., but I would like to have input from you, the people who ultimately use the machines! (I have serviced burnout ovens for years and so I am familiar with pretty much every burnout oven out there; however, my understanding of them is from a technical point of view, and I would like to hear from those who use them in their work!).

So, what comments do you have about the burnout oven you use?

Also, are there any features that you think would be great to see on a burnout oven and that would benefit you but aren't on available models? Thank you for any input you have to offer!
Kind regards,

Dan Serrago
IBEX Dental Technologies

How about pre-programming with investment manufacturer's instructions, gotta be idiot proof.
Is it possible to control the whole area of the oven like a domestic kitchen fan-oven - avoid hotspots or cool-spots.
Base of oven to be designed to allow even temperature spread.
Better insulation will allow faster suplementary burn-out cycles.
and waste heat could keep the coffee warm :D
 
Wyolab

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I wish I could make the Chicago show this year. I visited your website, and your porcelain furnaces look really nice. I am sure no matter what you end up with on the final design of your burnout oven it will be on par.
 
Mark Jackson

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* I would like to see mutiple burn out programs like a porcelain furnace. You could probably get away with just 10 or 12.

* I would like to have all of the internal components modular so that in-house repairs would be as easy as unplugging a part and plugging in a new one.

* I think it would be nice to have a port which would allow a device to plug in for fast/easy calibration, and to restore burn-out programs.

* I would like it to be stainless steel so it would stay looking nice and easy to clean

* I would like to see a metal or fiber handle that would not melt or get burn marks if the technician used the tongs to close the door.

* I would like to have the muffle built so that an adjustable shelf could be used to center the rings in the muffle, or to allow two layers of rings to go inside.

* I would like to have the option of having 220Volts

* I would like to have a sleep mode, that would drop the temperature back down to say, 500 and idle there.
 
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Al.

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Only 2 stages? That would put me out of the market.
I think the option for 3 stages is necessary for round house castings with the large rings to avoid finning.
 
dfshorn1

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Burnout oven features - Reply

To all who have sent me ideas for the new burn-out oven; I thank you for your input. I would like to address these and let you know what I am intending for my first go around.
Here are the main ideas mentioned:
1.Exhaust filter/ venting system
As I have mentioned eariler, the external exhaust filter is an expensive add on that was never popular with the Jelenko/ Jelrus burnout ovens because of the added expense compared to venting. I have venting system that is purchased seperately and can be connected to 2 burnout ovens. It has a cup device that sits ontop of the chimney and uses a small electric fan to draw out the gases. This is a low cfm fan, about 60cfm, and has a cooler air intermixer to cool down the exhaust an not damage the fan. The fan will run only when either of the ovens are running a cycle, otherwise it is turned off.

2. Power recovery both during a cycle and in standby -
The current board design will recover from a power failure during a cycle. I am working on the software changes needed to have it recover while on a timed start. As this requires a real time clock and battery backup.

3. Door type -
I believe the door will be a swing down type but am still looking at other methods. The reason why I lean towards a swing down door is: One, this is most cost effective way to build and still provide the left or right versatility. Two, Guillotine type doors are notorious for being knocked out of alignment and for wearing the inside insulation on the upper or leading edge of both the door and the chamber thus causing heat to leak from the top. These issues do not exist with a swing down door.

4. Muffle type - hot and cold spots, convection fan -
This is a subject that is not discussed much. Hot and cold spots are as much a technical issue in burnout ovens as they are in a porcelain furnace. They are just gotten around more easily. However, I have chosen a muffle assembly that is similar to the old Ney 2000 burnout ovens. That is where the similarity ends. The coils wrap around the sides and the back giving 270 degree heat pattern. In other industries, this same muffle is used at heat rates to 100 degrees F p/m. I plan to limit it to 72 degrees F / 50 C thus extending its life by many years. The operating wattage is 1700 watts. While this size wattage is normally for a large oven, I have an inbetween size that has a slightly larger foot print than the medium ovens but has 2/3 more capacity.

5. Preprogramming different investment materials -
I do not intend to have any preprogramming offered. There are sooo many different types of invest out there and than every tech has his or her variation to the best heating cycle not to mention the differences in ovens.

Full retail for all of this is set to be about $1200.

I welcome any questions or comments you may have and again, thanks for those already received.

Daniel
 
dfshorn1

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More things

Mark, Al
I just saw your postings after I sent the other one. There are some fine ideas in what you say Mark. I will read and address in a seperate posting. AL, as I said earlier, I do not use these things for a living, I just fix them. So, I am easy. With my current memory available, I can provide about 20 programs at 3 stages or 16 programs with 4. I just do not know what techs out there are using. My understanding is that 4 stages is no longer used at all. Is this true?


Daniel
 
Mark Jackson

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Mark, Al
I just saw your postings after I sent the other one. There are some fine ideas in what you say Mark.

Dan, I like the features you have decided on so far. I would especially like to see it in 220V, stainless steel, modular components and easy calibration.
 
dfshorn1

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Mark,
Stainless is definately in. One of the prototypes will be all stainless, another with just the door stainless, the main case would be high temp. primered and black paint on steel. As for modular design, I repair for a living so I believe in easy to repair. As this muffle assembly is pre-existing, I believe there is a 220 version but I will have to check. I have not decided on the handle material yet. Your comments on this are noted.

How much extra would you pay for a burnout oven that never needed to be calibrated? I am talking about maybe an extra $250 - $300 per unit. My porcelain and pressing furnaces are never calibrated due to design and the very high end of electronics used. I never gave much thought about using these controllers for a burnout oven as the temperature tolerences are so different.

Daniel
 
Mark Jackson

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Mark,
Stainless is definately in. One of the prototypes will be all stainless, another with just the door stainless, the main case would be high temp. primered and black paint on steel. As for modular design, I repair for a living so I believe in easy to repair. As this muffle assembly is pre-existing, I believe there is a 220 version but I will have to check. I have not decided on the handle material yet. Your comments on this are noted.

How much extra would you pay for a burnout oven that never needed to be calibrated? I am talking about maybe an extra $250 - $300 per unit. My porcelain and pressing furnaces are never calibrated due to design and the very high end of electronics used. I never gave much thought about using these controllers for a burnout oven as the temperature tolerences are so different.

Daniel

In my experience, muffles that "never need calibrating" = muffles that need to be replaced when the temperature varies. I do not believe in setting the temperature to 1270, when I want 1200 etc.

I would prefer the 220v, in ALL stainless.
 
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