What Dental mill is considered best or capable,or what lab is using one mill for everything

[grantoz]

i would highly recommend looking at the new range of zirkonzahn m2 mills they have some great new stuff like double milling. they are not cheep but they are great value. we have been milling with zz all materials for a long time now its well and truly shorted.

 

[molarmaker]

If a new lab is going to spend 100k on a new mill, they will have a bigger problem than worrying if the mill is 'good enough' they probably wont be able to pay for it. Different strokes I guess. Anyone with a startup, that would spend 100k on a mill in this business climate, with all the uncertainty, must be smarter, or wealthier than me. If money isnt an issue, then of course buy top of the line.
DOF sharp, while I wouldnt consider a 'good' mill, even DOF should admit that, does get the job done. And its less than half of 100k. Switching back and forth sucks, its not ideal and a pretty big waste of time, but for a new small lab, it pays the bills.

Your so right, techs are on a different platou when it comes to financial, This Dr has a large practice, were not going for industrial, just a work horse that can do some metal bars abutments mostly zir and a few LD, don't think its enough to warrant a separate mill or press oven, maybe to match and adjacent LD.

 

[molarmaker]

i would highly recommend looking at the new range of zirkonzahn m2 mills they have some great new stuff like double milling. they are not cheep but they are great value. we have been milling with zz all materials for a long time now its well and truly shorted.

I'll look into it tomorrow thanks

 

[molarmaker]

we are using the ivoclar PM5. but for an all around job, you might want to look into the ivoclar PM7.

Saw that today how much does it go for

 

[Affinity]

Well you didnt mention bars in your first post, if you need to do bars then I would send them out, unless the Dr has deep pockets. For everything else, a tabletop mill will work.

 

[DreN4do]

Saw that today how much does it go for

from what i understand (i didn't purchase it. the company owner did),but i believe it runs in the 60 to 70K (us dollars) range. and that is for the PM5. I don't know about the PM7. you can get your own financing i believe, or finance through ivoclar itself.

 

[Contraluz]

from what i understand (i didn't purchase it. the company owner did),but i believe it runs in the 60 to 70K (us dollars) range. and that is for the PM5. I don't know about the PM7. you can get your own financing i believe, or finance through ivoclar itself.

Saw that today how much does it go for

I am sure you will get a rather good price, if you close sale before years end! It might be worth calling your local Ivoclar rep

 

[Affinity]

Rep just told me that DOF scanners MSRP is going up $1000 after the first of the year, so now sounds like the best time to buy....

 

[molarmaker]

Well you didnt mention bars in your first post, if you need to do bars then I would send them out, unless the Dr has deep pockets. For everything else, a tabletop mill will work.

my fault, that makes the list shorter

 

[molarmaker]

Whats your budget : )

I don't know exactly but I'm hoping he's got enough to burn up a wet elephant

 

[Affinity]

Yes definitely putting you in the 75-100k range everyone was talking about earlier. If you dont do a lot, I cant see how that would be justified, unless someone else is paying for it! With the tooling, CAM and time invested to 'figure it out', like beatrice said, youre better off sending it out. You would have to be doing several a week and at that pace you need something turnkey that works.. which means more $$$. Zirkonzahn, zubler, datron, Imes 650i, would be the entry level to do everything including bars. But keep in mind if youre doing bars, you will also need to make a bigger investment in the scanner.

 

[Sda36]

Yes definitely putting you in the 75-100k range everyone was talking about earlier. If you dont do a lot, I cant see how that would be justified, unless someone else is paying for it! With the tooling, CAM and time invested to 'figure it out', like beatrice said, youre better off sending it out. You would have to be doing several a week and at that pace you need something turnkey that works.. which means more $$$. Zirkonzahn, zubler, datron, Imes 650i, would be the entry level to do everything including bars. But keep in mind if youre doing bars, you will also need to make a bigger investment in the scanner.

I always thought of Versamill for next in line to purchase, thouroughy thought out beginning to end, support looks amazing also. Checked out their booth in Chicago, all units running, ZERO vibration touching them. I believe they also run with thicker shank burs which lend to higher accuracy. They seem to have an extensive training system. Haven't pulled the trigger yet but so far they're on top of my list.

 

[grantoz]

check out m2 zirkonzahn mills

 

[Affinity]

might want to talk to riley first sda

 

[sidesh0wb0b]

With this economic slowdown lightly used industrial cnc's are a dime a dozen

you must have more dimes than i do!

 

[JohnWilson]

Having the best tools doesn't achieve good parts off of them. Crashing a 100k mill will cost you way more than 40k roland. Your first mill will not be your last, walk before you enter a marathon.

With that said as others state milling HARD materials is well HARD. After 15 years now and a bunch of mills we realized all of them are good when you know how to use them. We never believed milling blue blocks would offer good results on anything less than a Ultrasonic until we bought a PM7. Today we charge a premium for EMAX CAD, not every crown needs to be Zi just because its easy and more cost effective to produce. Raise your prices show a better product and don't try and compete wit hthe crap production labs around this country.

Denture work is super efficient and fast and the results are exception when your cad is managed properly when milling on the PM7

Chrome, mills EXCEPTIONAL, I have many thimble bars done now and the finish looks like its came off or Beatrice's fancy smancy mills It just takes 3 times as long I imagine but that's what nights and weekends are for right? I had to test to see if this is possible with the mill, all of the strategies for these units are created by me and more importantly my wizard CAM tech in my lab.

Can we mill interfaces with this machine with proper tooling and the proper know how? Of course but what is the reason to do this? Will we make more than outsourcing the design and being completely compliant with Class 2 devices??? That's a no, at least now. Today we can partner with companies using swiss lathes producing superior parts for next to nothing, again single tooth stuff are widgets and is NOT what I consider something I need to try and keep in house. Gone are the day of $300 atlantis abutments, Now non eng componentry to the abutment and or fixture, with the right tooling and a new tight tolerance mill and proper leg work/understanding can produce a product that resembles a very high end product, but let me tell you TRUE perfect products are not easy to make with a 100k mill. Just remember the hard part, and the part most do not talk about is the cost to have compliance for this so in the end we don't UNTIL something happens with IVO's submissions.

So in the end when Dr's buy mills with their limited understanding and more or less regurgitation of salesmen's recommendations they will often buy a product that infers that it can do EVERYTHING. Many can but few can do it well and in the end probably is not your best bet for a starter mill.

Point and click widgets off the mill is there for the vast majority of single tooth stuff, it's amazing how the manufacturers have turned techs into machinists over night but NONE of the systems on the market today have a simple path to complex geometries and if you want to master that then you need to read a bunch of 5x machine websites and learn what your CAM can and can't do.

Good luck on your journey.

 

[Affinity]

I dont think anyone would suggest that someone who has never owned or operated a mill, buy a top of the line mill to do bars, if my previous comments suggested that. Not to mention having the Dr pay a premium for it, is suicide...

 

[TheLabGuy]

I always thought of Versamill for next in line to purchase, thouroughy thought out beginning to end, support looks amazing also. Checked out their booth in Chicago, all units running, ZERO vibration touching them. I believe they also run with thicker shank burs which lend to higher accuracy. They seem to have an extensive training system. Haven't pulled the trigger yet but so far they're on top of my list.

If I was milling wet pre-blank titanium abutments a Versamill is exactly what I would go for. Then I'd purchase the 52DCi Roland (multi-disk auto-changer) for dry milling zirconia. You can pull that off for less than 100k. For bars, i'd just send them out as Beatrice states, million dollar mills are meant to do those.

 

[molarmaker]

Rep just told me that DOF scanners MSRP is going up $1000 after the first of the year, so now sounds like the best time to buy....

https://lmtmag.com/products/dof-sharp-5x-milling-machine got a .price

Well yes Atlantis use 1 million dollars mill to do their abutment at their quality.
Second, milling abutment is really a bad idea if you don't use a proper machine but heh if you want to deliver bad solutions and product to your doc, your choice!

Milling ZIRCONIA is another questions, a nice small machine can do a lots in zirconia since precision is not a requirement with Zirconia, you will always use a TI base on implant or cement between your final crown and your abutment or bridge.

Milling TITANIUM is an ART and trust me, few know how to master it, many try and believe tho! You can go in school and take a 3 to 5 years class in college to learn how to run a 5 axis CNC and you believe that a dental tech lab could learn that on a forum on internet? No you can't, same as learning dental technique on internet, you can't, you have to take class and even the top tier dental tech in the industry continue to take class to stay on top

Not different in milling world!

I still think that a lab should get a nice Zirconia mill and outsource the titanium and Co-Cr to industrial manufacturer.

Oh and we didn't even discuss about spindle that break! $$$$$$ even on a low cost machine, sometime it cheaper to get a new mill than replacing the spindle!

So to answer the OP question, a nice Roland is really an awesome choice to start, easy to get a 2nd in case your machine have a problem and not stop your production.

My 2 cents

 

[CoolHandLuke]

i wouldn't get a sharp mill at gunpoint