Wax Press Stain and Glaze Venners

Al.

Al.

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I had some free time so I thought Id post this up for the folks on these forums. Anybody have any tips please share them.
Venners are the probably my biggest challenge along with implant cases.
They are not difficult if I am patient and take extra care in the wax, but if I rush the wax up they are a nightmare.

Here is my technique, all the while under the watchful eye of my superviser.

sp.jpg


This case is replacing old venners done yrs ago on over agressive preps.
Dr wants me to match the pre op length and width.
I didnt section the model so I can keep the interproximal tissue for the wax up and I get better contacts.

wv.jpg


First I put a layer of my dipping wax on the dies. I use Gatorwax. Probably around .4 +/-. This helps me judge the thickness during the wax up and the dipping wax is more flexable with some memory.

wv1.jpg


I wax one unit at a time starting with the cuspids, and going from one side to the other.

wv2.jpg

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I do not carve the wax unless I first heat the area with the tip of my waxer and I always carve downwards toward the gingival.

I add only a minimal amount of wax interproximal. I want to keep my seperation through out the wax up so I dont have to search where my contacts will be later.
If you add too much wax interproximal remove it while the wax is still warm.
As the wax cools it shrinks and will lift the venners next to it. I constantly keep my seperation with a very thin razor, usually 3/4 of the way through.

As I add bulk to the center of the wax up the margins tend to lift so I am constantly sealing my margins.

Here is a real time saver tip. This saves me a ton of time.
I lube my finger and lay it on the back of the dies and wax to my finger. My lub of choice is saliva.:) Its not to hot as long as you dont touch the tip of your finger with the spatula.

wv4.jpg


I match up all my incisal edges this way, if needed, after I get my inital wax done.

wv5.jpg

wv7.jpg


Ready to cut through my contacts.

wv8.jpg


I do not heat my razor to cut through venners. It will remove too much wax opening up the contacts to much. I slowly work and slice through untill I can remove each one.
Here they have been cut and placed back on the model. I have been using that same razor for over 15 yrs.

wv9.jpg


One at a time starting from right to left I refine my contacts making sure no venner is over on to the prep next to it. I add a small amount of wax to one contact area, where needed, and firmly seat the venner next to it in place while the wax is still soft. How I do my contacts now will determine how much work I do later.
I finish my margins now exactly as I want them to be at the time of glaze.
If I am going to cut back and layer I sprue on the insical edge. If it is a stain and glaze case, as this one is, I sprue slightly below the edge.

wv10.jpg

wv11.jpg


They are pressed and fit and the contacts are adjusted. I missed the midline of the two centrals. I need to move #9 over to the right and I am going to try to bring the M and D line angles of #8 and #9 inwards and mabey slightly lengthen them to make them look less squatty.
This is a male so I want to keep a masculine appearance.

wv12.jpg


Ready to glaze.

wv13.jpg


I stain first and fire, then glaze.
This is a B1 so I put B1 shade on the gin 1/2. I put a very slight amount of insical shade on the insical 1/4 then I lay small amount of white on the insical edge and sometimes carry it along the M and D line angles if I want to help them stand out.
Glaze then put back on the master model to readjust the contacts from the glaze.

wv14.jpg


Put on the second pour to reconfirm the tissue contact, interproximal embrassures,contacts and margins.

wv15.jpg


The wax up took me about 2 1/2 hours and it took me another 2 1/2 hrs to get them packed and ready for delivery.

Ive seen some wax facings for anteriors that I might order. If those work that would save a ton of time in the wax.
 
JohnWilson

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Nice work and write up AL,

Good thing you have no employees where a handbook would have to include the special lube advice. :D

What ingot is this? Empress Esthetic? Do you routinely sprue to that part of the veneer? How often do you put six in one ring?

Again thanks for sharing, I am enjoying your posts most of all on this site.
 
C

clearH2O

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Hi Al, you make veneer cases look easier than everyone else. I have a question when i do pressing ceramics cases my supervisor always remind me to keep the sprue as short as 2MM and smooth all attaching angle of the sprue to produce a better margin fit. What is your opinion? After saw your first picture posting, i bought the Kodak ZD8612 IS to take pictures and compare them to my Sony Cyber-shot. The Kodak is easier to use and giving better quality plus it is way cheaper($149.00 vs $399.00).

Thanks for the tip

Clear H2O
 
Al.

Al.

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Nice work and write up AL,

Good thing you have no employees where a handbook would have to include the special lube advice. :D

What ingot is this? Empress Esthetic? Do you routinely sprue to that part of the veneer? How often do you put six in one ring?

Again thanks for sharing, I am enjoying your posts most of all on this site.
Thanks John, an old timer once told me that "nose grease" was the best lube there was. Ive never tried it but if I had the courage I could probably get some from my wifes cell phone since she always has her nose buried in it.

Yeah thats esthetic. Thats an ETC1 ingot. I needed 2 ingots so it was either two small rings and 2 pressings or 1 large and 1 pressing. I havnt had any problems with missed presses or blowouts so I usually put them all together if I can arrange them so I have plenty of space in between.

If I cut back and layer I always sprue on the incisal edge. If I press and stain I try to finish my incisal edges in the wax and I hate to spend all that time and have to do it all over again in the porc.
You need to make your sprue a bit longer though because the edge is in the way and also you need to take care of the angle you use to seperate them from the button so they dont shear off into the venner. You know how you touch them with the diamond disk and they pop off and the break is at the angle you approached from.
It helps when I cut my wax sprue off at an angle also otherwise I just melt it off at an angle.
I tried using the 10 ga sprues and they pressed fine, and did less damage to my wax up, but they seperate when I devest. So I use the 8 ga. On emax I use 10 ga sprues with no problem except for bridges. But on emax LT, I sprue on the lingual for full contours because there is a discoloration :( at the sprue. It appears to be a spot of more transulency?
 
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Al.

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Hi Al, you make veneer cases look easier than everyone else. I have a question when i do pressing ceramics cases my supervisor always remind me to keep the sprue as short as 2MM and smooth all attaching angle of the sprue to produce a better margin fit. What is your opinion? After saw your first picture posting, i bought the Kodak ZD8612 IS to take pictures and compare them to my Sony Cyber-shot. The Kodak is easier to use and giving better quality plus it is way cheaper($149.00 vs $399.00).

Thanks for the tip

Clear H2O
Well you got to do what your boss says but mabey you will be the boss some day and mabey even his boss.:)
My manual says to make the sprues, min 3mm to max of 8mm. Mine are usually around 4 or 5mm.
I dont know how I would seperate them at 2mm thats just barely enough room to get your disk in there and you limited with the angle you cut from.
Buy the time you round all the angles on a 2mm sprue there isnt much of a sprue left.

Yes you need to keep the angles around the sprue rounded for a smooth flow and you dont want to pinch off the ends like you may do for pfm copings.
 
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L

labdude

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Nice work Al.
What is your supervisers name??? I have 3 here. Ozzy, Tazzie, and Chance.
otcdogs.jpg
 
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JohnWilson

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So Al,

Are you using Ivoclars Investment for pressing?
 
Al.

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i bought the Kodak ZD8612 IS to take pictures and compare them to my Sony Cyber-shot. The Kodak is easier to use and giving better quality plus it is way cheaper($149.00 vs $399.00).
Clear, I use the P mode to take closeups and set it for the close up, which is the flower vs the mountian which is for landscape pics. The Auto mode dosent focus well up close. That is the negative for that cam it dosnt have a manual focus, so for close ups it tends to go in and out of focus, so I get 2 out of 5 pics that are not crisp.
I havnt tried it but there is a mode where I can turn down the flash.
 
Al.

Al.

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Nice work Al.
What is your supervisers name??? I have 3 here. Ozzy, Tazzie, and Chance.

That is funny, they are cute!
How do they all fit between your legs at night in bed?:D
Mine is Cocoa short for Cocoa Puff, my wife has a white short hair.
This is the only place I would admit to having one of these tiny dogs.
Everywhere else their my wifes and my real dog is a Pitt Bull.
 
Al.

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So Al,

Are you using Ivoclars Investment for pressing?
Yes, I have stuck to using everything of theirs in the system. I havnt cked around for prices from other manufactors. Everything has worked as advertised for 2 yrs so I dont want to change even if it saves me a few $. Im afraid to make any changes in technique or materials as long as its working today. Tomorrow may be a different story.

There is a lab about 30 miles from me that has used 3 different investments because he has had problems with blowouts. Ive never had one to date.
He just bought the new Ivoclar oven because it can detect cracks in the investment and abort before pressing.
 
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TheLabGuy

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Hey Al, just got back from getting some new clients, but crashing my car.....totally my fault too.....oh' well. Okay to your veneers......I like the broad contacts, wish you would of showed a picture from the lingual. I prefer to separate my dies because of margin integrity but still use a solid model to confirm tissue response as well. To each is their own really on that one as long as you feel comfortable with your margins. Nice work, and nice quality pics with that 149.99........mine cost twice as that and won't take a shot for the life of it. Oh yeah, why don't you sprue on the incisal edge? I always do, because I layer all my esthetic, and the cutback would be right where the sprue is....Just curious is all.
 
Al.

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Rob, good luck on the new clients do you have any employees lined up. Growing pains are a buger.
Icey roads? Did you have to tow it?
 
TheLabGuy

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Rob, good luck on the new clients do you have any employees lined up. Growing pains are a buger.
Icey roads? Did you have to tow it?

I got employees lined up, but holding off till I really have no other choice. As for the car, no icey roads, i just had a seniors moment and didn't see a car in my blind spot and slammed right into the side of him. Didn't have to tow it, but it looks like something on lap 200 at Bristol Motor Speedway running near the end of the pack (no front bumper, no grill, no left quarter panel, half a headlight)....
 
D

dentcre

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nice work.
hey Al,, post pictures of your lab,, need some ideas ,,!
 

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