Vita? vm9?

[PinAn]

Hi all
I'm so confused why vita give me a liner list
But if I follow this list I can't get corrected color!!?
If coping is A3 I use eL4/EL6 liner
After dentine I will get A2!!
Wtf!

 

[rkm rdt]

That's Vita for you. The only company that can't match their shade guides.

 

[Sevan P]

We just take the body porcelain and do a thin wash and bake, then stack the crown, no liners. But recently we have been using clear zirliner from ivoclar on all anterior units then stack VM9 and no issues. Vita has a great out of the bottle shade outcome, we also use a vita 6000m oven, maybe it's the oven the makes the difference..........LOL

 

[H.Ross]

I do 90% on my cases with VM9, I have full kit.

Effect Liner is NOT used to color the zirconia, it is used to increase fluorescence in the depth. Note you need to bake it on a higher temperature 930C than the rest of the porcelains in the kit. It is used mainly on neck areas and you can cover the whole crown with it.

Yes, VM9 shades are not always warm enough to get the coloring right, I always face this but I know how to overcome this issue. Try mixing your Base Dentin with Chroma Plus 50:50 in the first or wash bake.

Bonus tip, out of all ceramics I've tried, the best color matching with using only Dentin and Enamel I found with Creation CT. I am pretty sure there are many other reputable brands you can try, with Vita you have to use a lot of materials to get shade right.

 

[rkm rdt]

GC Luster paste is the best liner I have used.

 

[charles007]

Make me an offer I can't refuse on my VM9.. Did you say $150.00 SOLD !!

Like Sevan, I use thin layer of dentin as your wash coat and use Zirliner liquids. Brush on thin layer as though its opaque.
Once fired, checkout the wash coat shade. If the shade is light ! your core shade of your zirconia is to light. I say this because
your said your A3 is more like an A2........
Porcelain is very translucent which can result in light shades and crowns with the value off when fired on zirconia !
In my Ivoclar P500 oven my wash coat is fires at 975 and bis bake at 915

Should you try using Stain kits such as InSyn stain to color zir. frameworks, you want to fire the stains at the same high temp as the dentin porcelains high temp.....

Better idea, change to Creation ZI CT or Jensens InSyn porcelain on your zirconia and also use on Emax !!
Third choice, GC porcelain... all 3 of these porcelain systems will give predictable shades and are cheaper per gram........

Using GC Lustre Paste stains are fine with GC porcelain to add color/increase chroma, but you can't fire lower fusing stains on zir as the liner color, then fire higher fusing porcelains like fusing VM9 on top of the lower fusing stains.

 

[Pieter]

Hi all
I'm so confused why vita give me a liner list
But if I follow this list I can't get corrected color!!?
If coping is A3 I use eL4/EL6 liner
After dentine I will get A2!!
Wtf!

You need to learn how much to use and which liner with which shades. Too big a build -up with liner will alter the shade. I include two pics of liner build-up fired high and separate before applying base dentin. Liner gives fluorescence from underneath.


These pics are not VM 9 but VMK Master Luminary which is the same thing as Effect liner on VM 9. But gives you an idea how much you use

 

[Pieter]

Unfortunately not a real-life colour tab.
But EL 6 green yellow- I would not use that on A3. EL 4 or EL 5 in the centre with El 2 on distal and mesial sides. If you fire lower than 970 its under baked and shade sucks.

 

[Pieter]

Finally - If you know your ceramic well you can do Master Pieces with any ceramic. hope this helps.

 

[PinAn]

Hi all ~
3 month later I solve the color issue ( with chroma plus)
But I got new issue now
I try to build 4M3 in suggest process
I don't know why the END looks so Transparent,
The dentine will show up ! I can't get a result like the normal enamel like

Any suggest? Thank you

 

[Polarmolar]

Hi all ~
3 month later I solve the color issue ( with chroma plus)
But I got new issue now
I try to build 4M3 in suggest process
I don't know why the END looks so Transparent,
The dentine will show up ! I can't get a result like the normal enamel like

Any suggest? Thank you

Fire porcelain by it self to see opacity or fire a window tab to make sure it's firing correctly. I found the vita shades match perfectly to their shade guides if you follow their instructions and I use their easy shade to check it also.


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