VHF Problems

[adl]

Thank you all for the responses. I clean the mill every time I mill something,change the burs religiously and only use the re-seller burs. They kind of get expensive paying $50-$60 per bur and only lasting me on average 20 units.a ground wire for the z axis was also inserted inside the mill.i figure my burs are ok since I don't get any chipping .only opened the mill once and I was pleasantly surprised not to see a lot of dust inside.im open to any suggestions and thank you for the input.
I do spindle maintence every time I'm done milling zirconia ,no matter how many units I mill.obviously this issue comes up only with zirconia.i could probably mill wax 24/7 without any problems.when I clean the inside of the mill I use a flat brush and a small shop vac..I have not taken the mill apart besides taken the cover off and cleaning it when I installed the ground wire for the z axis.
I appreciate everyone's help and expertise ,I don't take it for granted.thank you guys

 

[adl]

I use and highly recommend sierra diamonds for the VHF only on the 2mm, use the Sierra Razor sharp in the 1mm and the MFG .6mm extremely good setup, 2mm gets 350-450+ the 1mm razor sharp get upward of 2mm cuts and the .60 350 then I change it out. All those number are on my Zr only mill.

Also run the Razor Sharp 2mm and 1mm on my wax mill and they go forever with no issues of crashing for a very long time.

Here is my current log
I circled the new start of the burs and the .6 carried over 49 units from the old chart.
View attachment 20412

I keep track of the units cut on each bur, gives me a better time of when the burs are to be changed out before a big bridge or big night run.

Those are impressive numbers . I didn't even dare going to diamond burs since I was having so much trouble to begin with.And yes I found it ridiculous how inefficient the burs that I'm using are.

 

[adl]

Constantly keep the chamber and touch off area clean of ZR dust, also take a tooth brush and brush around the spindle head to keep that clean. Highly recommended you take the mill apart once every 6 months or so and blow off the inside of the mill to keep the boards clean of Zr dust as well. They are highly touchy mills if you neglect them. I also made extra ground strap to all axis board and plate to ensure a better conductivity. I also run one of my mills as a wax pmma only and the other as a Zr only and have no issues.

Keep count of units on the burs and change them out when they get close to the end of life and the .6mm is the biggest culprit in the game. Just try to keep the shaft of the tools clean of Zr dust as well to ensure a good conductive connection between the tool and the chuck. Keep the inside of the spindle clean as well.

The biggest thing you won't see is the Zr powder on the back of the main board, use a electric cleaner like CRC QD electroinc Cleaner, it is a red can, quick drying. Take the main board out and clean all the plugs and board, let dry then put back togeter. Take pics of where each plug goes so you know where to put them when you re assemble it.

Sevan ,you sound like a savant when it comes to these mills ! Did you make the extra ground straps to all axis board yourself,or they were provided to you? Thanks

 

[Sevan P]

Those are impressive numbers . I didn't even dare going to diamond burs since I was having so much trouble to begin with.And yes I found it ridiculous how inefficient the burs that I'm using are.

Sevan ,you sound like a savant when it comes to these mills ! Did you make the extra ground straps to all axis board yourself,or they were provided to you? Thanks

16ga Wire fromany electronic shop and some eyeloop connectors. Route them with all the other cables and zip tie accordingly. I even went as far as sand blasting the anodization odd the area the plate sits on and where the holder connects to the a axis motor.

I have also tried the Vaseline trick under the plate, didn't really work but attracted a boat load or Zr dust to it. LOL
I have had my fair share of issues with these mills. My EZ mill from cad blue is my wax pmma only mill, that I will never ever cut Zr on cause it is a bitch per say and crashes. LOL

 

[adl]

16ga Wire fromany electronic shop and some eyeloop connectors. Route them with all the other cables and zip tie accordingly. I even went as far as sand blasting the anodization odd the area the plate sits on and where the holder connects to the a axis motor.

I have also tried the Vaseline trick under the plate, didn't really work but attracted a boat load or Zr dust to it. LOL
I have had my fair share of issues with these mills. My EZ mill from cad blue is my wax pmma only mill, that I will never ever cut Zr on cause it is a bitch per say and crashes. LOL

Thank you.! Speaking of Vaseline under the plate. I used the lubricant that I use for spindle maintence ,that was probably wrong as well then. But how do you keep the washers there when changing the plate? I'm going to have to figure out something because I have a hard time dealing with it . Can't stand the uncertainty. Thanks again for your help

 

[Sevan P]

Thank you.! Speaking of Vaseline under the plate. I used the lubricant that I use for spindle maintence ,that was probably wrong as well then. But how do you keep the washers there when changing the plate? I'm going to have to figure out something because I have a hard time dealing with it . Can't stand the uncertainty. Thanks again for your help

NEVER use old washer, always replace the washer and screws that come with the plate, if they come with it. I know the ones from talladium comes with everything. I always use fresh parts.

 

[esamuelr]

Check the DC voltage from a tool in the spindle to one of the housing screws. You should get 22+ volts. If you don't, you want to add an amplifier kit that allows for higher resistance to close the touch off circuit. Sevan is right in saying 6 month maintenance is ideal for zirconia milling. Especially if you are cutting a lot of units through the mill.
Making sure you use an uncoated .6 can be helpful as well. Grounding straps should be added to the y/a axis. I wouldn't want to add one to the z. Too little space and too many moving parts behind the blocking plate and behind the mill. Also to much of a chance in contacting the electronics board.
Steaming off the cutting edges of your tools daily or twice weekly depending one volume can extend the life of carbides significantly. They will collect abrasive zirconia dust in the cutting flutes.
Always be sure that the tool you are using can match the cam speed and feed rates you are running for any given material. Could lead to unexpected chipping when it can be avoided.


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[cadfan]

VHF holy **** constructed a micro switch cost 100 Euro but this helps you not , their are two versions of touch plates out the best is the pin one , and two versions measuring one is moving always to the same point the other touches concentric different points i think its part of the ini folder for the controller so no access !!! The newer plates where sold with rotation secure distance rings they are not for rotation secure but for better contact btw. touch plate and A achs versus cnc controller to close conductive measurement even for the long run using zirkon. Inside the spindle is although a small carbon part to close circuit of the touch after a few years its brocken. Take care what ever you do the ax and spindel controllers are sensitive about overload. Whenever something fail 90 percent cable or cnc controller and sometimes the spindel save your mill geometry folder its a folder in the camsoftware called MG this is your life insurance. If this is overwritten or lost because of software issues the mill goes back to manufacturer maybe some resellers can create a new but dont know. Last time i talked with one of their story telling crazy engineers he told me the only problem with the touch plate they have are some US guys using Sierra Tools .
But i think Sevan knows more about the mill than he. For me its always a pleasure having a look at their website and how they promote their new features learning by doing sometimes bad luck for their customers . A big field trial. I dont want to know what happened if everybody mills co cr as they say ??? I believe i can fly !!!!

 

[adl]

Check the DC voltage from a tool in the spindle to one of the housing screws. You should get 22+ volts. If you don't, you want to add an amplifier kit that allows for higher resistance to close the touch off circuit. Sevan is right in saying 6 month maintenance is ideal for zirconia milling. Especially if you are cutting a lot of units through the mill.
Making sure you use an uncoated .6 can be helpful as well. Grounding straps should be added to the y/a axis. I wouldn't want to add one to the z. Too little space and too many moving parts behind the blocking plate and behind the mill. Also to much of a chance in contacting the electronics board.
Steaming off the cutting edges of your tools daily or twice weekly depending one volume can extend the life of carbides significantly. They will collect abrasive zirconia dust in the cutting flutes.
Always be sure that the tool you are using can match the cam speed and feed rates you are running for any given material. Could lead to unexpected chipping when it can be avoided.


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I have to check if my .6 is coated or not . I know sometimes I get them coated sometimes non coated even though I order the same thing from my reseller .they change their minds every now and then about things.its been a year since I installed the ground wire but I'm pretty sure it was for the z axis. I know it was only 1 of them.and again things can change again and again. I run the cam that came with the mill.i do steam clean my burs so they last a bit longer. Their efficiency is pathetic, absolutely horrible. I only use reseller burs but I found them to be a ripoff.,but again I have enough problems ,don't want to take any chances... Thank you for the input

 

[adl]

VHF holy **** constructed a micro switch cost 100 Euro but this helps you not , their are two versions of touch plates out the best is the pin one , and two versions measuring one is moving always to the same point the other touches concentric different points i think its part of the ini folder for the controller so no access !!! The newer plates where sold with rotation secure distance rings they are not for rotation secure but for better contact btw. touch plate and A achs versus cnc controller to close conductive measurement even for the long run using zirkon. Inside the spindle is although a small carbon part to close circuit of the touch after a few years its brocken. Take care what ever you do the ax and spindel controllers are sensitive about overload. Whenever something fail 90 percent cable or cnc controller and sometimes the spindel save your mill geometry folder its a folder in the camsoftware called MG this is your life insurance. If this is overwritten or lost because of software issues the mill goes back to manufacturer maybe some resellers can create a new but dont know. Last time i talked with one of their story telling crazy engineers he told me the only problem with the touch plate they have are some US guys using Sierra Tools .
But i think Sevan knows more about the mill than he. For me its always a pleasure having a look at their website and how they promote their new features learning by doing sometimes bad luck for their customers . A big field trial. I dont want to know what happened if everybody mills co cr as they say ??? I believe i can fly !!!!

I have the newer plates,I don't know if they work better.there is lot to know about these mills. I do the maintence that I'm supposed to,I keep my mill clean,but I'm not here to reinvent the wheel.i run a business and when I buy something and do what I'm supposed to do,I really expect the equipment to work right.i can't spend that kind of time on doing their job. I don't have an army working for me, I'm a pretty small lab.we all have to eat.we are on our own to design a life that we want and it's hard to do that when you are dealing with stuff like that.. Thank you for your input

 

[adl]

Check the DC voltage from a tool in the spindle to one of the housing screws. You should get 22+ volts. If you don't, you want to add an amplifier kit that allows for higher resistance to close the touch off circuit. Sevan is right in saying 6 month maintenance is ideal for zirconia milling. Especially if you are cutting a lot of units through the mill.
Making sure you use an uncoated .6 can be helpful as well. Grounding straps should be added to the y/a axis. I wouldn't want to add one to the z. Too little space and too many moving parts behind the blocking plate and behind the mill. Also to much of a chance in contacting the electronics board.
Steaming off the cutting edges of your tools daily or twice weekly depending one volume can extend the life of carbides significantly. They will collect abrasive zirconia dust in the cutting flutes.
Always be sure that the tool you are using can match the cam speed and feed rates you are running for any given material. Could lead to unexpected chipping when it can be avoided.


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Esamueir,I just checked my .6 bur and its coated.

 

[esamuelr]

I would replace it when you can with a wax plastic style uncoated tool. No gray oxide and no gold TiN coatings. You can use it for all materials. Depending on your Cam, it will be minimally used for margin finishing on inlays/onlays/veneers and on crowns, bridges and abutment crowns for occlusal anatomy finishing.

The .6 has such a small surface area to touch and close the measurement circuit, uncoated tools can be helpful.


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[adl]

I would replace it when you can with a wax plastic style uncoated tool. No gray oxide and no gold TiN coatings. You can use it for all materials. Depending on your Cam, it will be minimally used for margin finishing on inlays/onlays/veneers and on crowns, bridges and abutment crowns for occlusal anatomy finishing.

The .6 has such a small surface area to touch and close the measurement circuit, uncoated tools can be helpful.


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Ok,thank you Esamuelr! Sorry I butchered your name the first time

 

[Sevan P]

If you are using the MFG .6mm you have nothing to worry about. I have zero issues with the VHF .6mm bur. You can try the uncoated but I doubt it will fix anything. The surface on the .6mm is soo small any interference with Zr powder can cause any .6mm to crash.

Call your retailer and see if they can get a hold a boost from VHF. I got one from cad blu a long time ago and it is in my Zr mill along with all the other mods we did to the inside to improve conductivity. The thing runs like a charm since.

 

[adl]

If you are using the MFG .6mm you have nothing to worry about. I have zero issues with the VHF .6mm bur. You can try the uncoated but I doubt it will fix anything. The surface on the .6mm is soo small any interference with Zr powder can cause any .6mm to crash.

Call your retailer and see if they can get a hold a boost from VHF. I got one from cad blu a long time ago and it is in my Zr mill along with all the other mods we did to the inside to improve conductivity. The thing runs like a charm since.

Stevan, i am using the Mfg burs.would I need to modify the inside of my mill as well along with the boost in order for my mill to get to full functionality ? Is the boost the same thing with the amplifier? ( I know it's a dumm question ).thank you

 

[Sevan P]

Stevan, i am using the Mfg burs.would I need to modify the inside of my mill as well along with the boost in order for my mill to get to full functionality ? Is the boost the same thing with the amplifier? ( I know it's a dumm question ).thank you

Single amplifier or signal booster same thing. No it is an inline add on. Simple unplug the plug from the board, plug the amplifier in the board then connect the original plug to the amplifier, then connect the power line to the spare port on the board and your done, a 5 min job once you get the housing off.

 

[esamuelr]

If you have the housing off you should check cleanliness and clean your guides. Also make sure that you place the amplifier so it doesn't interfere with your spindle hoses or spindle cable when they move in x Axis motion.


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[adl]

Thank you all. I have some work to do to bring my mill to full potential . I will keep you posted.

 

[JohnWilson]

The spindle amplifier is a band aid and a precursor to the main board is having an issue. It will boost the signal until the main board goes tits up. At least this is what I was told when I bought one

Seven have you had to replace any board or a spindle, I am coming up on 4.5 years with the mini and estimated 40k++ pieces milled, thing is a beast. Its not running as hard as it once was now that I have two Selects but it still mills everyday of the week.

In that time we were using the OLD style thick touch Plates and when they would put a divot we would plane cut it via software and recalibrate. Wieland ended up changing the touch plate design so now we just replace when needed 2 times in 2 years now.

We use tools from ToolMack tools.

Its long past the warranty, been waiting for a major issue to come up but so far so good. The one thing I will stress is good air and good suction, clean EVERYDAY. Take care of your investment and by all means make money with it.

 

[adl]

The spindle amplifier is a band aid and a precursor to the main board is having an issue. It will boost the signal until the main board goes tits up. At least this is what I was told when I bought one

Seven have you had to replace any board or a spindle, I am coming up on 4.5 years with the mini and estimated 40k++ pieces milled, thing is a beast. Its not running as hard as it once was now that I have two Selects but it still mills everyday of the week.

In that time we were using the OLD style thick touch Plates and when they would put a divot we would plane cut it via software and recalibrate. Wieland ended up changing the touch plate design so now we just replace when needed 2 times in 2 years now.

We use tools from ToolMack tools.

Its long past the warranty, been waiting for a major issue to come up but so far so good. The one thing I will stress is good air and good suction, clean EVERYDAY. Take care of your investment and by all means make money with it.

Thanks John,good to know. To be honest I don't have any faith in it anymore.as far as the mill being clean,I spent 10-15 min cleaning it every time I mill something .EVERY TIME.my compressor is equipped with both Atlas Copco filter and dryer. The air coming out of it is clean and dry. The vacuum is an ivac Quattro dedicated specifically for the mill.I have been babysitting this mill for far too long,what else can I do with it? I just think I got a lemon,plain and simple. Thanks again for your input.