Typical steps for cast rpd

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Denture Dude

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Today I started charging for a duplicate model when I make custom trays for rpds. My docs want a model back when they get the tray so they can eyeball it for preps and then they also use the model to make their design (an idea I discouraged, even with all of this the frames are often occluding on preps). Up till now I’ve painstakingly saved and cleaned the models and just included them with the tray. Takes as much time as a dup model. So. Dup charge it is.

My main question though. 1) What do you guys see? What are your docs doing when it comes to rpds? Are they just sending you an impression in a stock tray? And, if you had a magic wand, how would you like to see the steps executed? Text book answers are fine. I’m more interested in real world experience.
 
Rtyrelw

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I don't understand what you mean with duplicating models? We don't duplicate the models when we're making them standard analog way we put a wax spacer down and then just wash the model and it doesn't take very long at all. The custom tree comes out and everything is sent back as they got it there's no extra model but the model is cleaned which is not very painstaking. Alternatively we have doctors who are okay with us doing digital custom trays which are a lot easier. You scan it print it and run a scotch brighter over it it is easier faster and doesn't even have to touch the model except to check passivity. Whether they're doing a full denture a partial denture a large unit case that would be how I would make my custom trays. If the doctor decides to write on the models to draw his rpds I personally at my lab don't do the rpds in house so it's one more thing I send out to the lab that fabricates my rpds which would either be Mabel or Chrome works. I've never had them complain about a model or a picture being an issue. I guess I fully don't understand what exactly your problem is? Am I responding to what the problem is or am I just talking haha?
 
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Denture Dude

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I don't understand what you mean with duplicating models? We don't duplicate the models when we're making them standard analog way we put a wax spacer down and then just wash the model and it doesn't take very long at all. The custom tree comes out and everything is sent back as they got it there's no extra model but the model is cleaned which is not very painstaking. Alternatively we have doctors who are okay with us doing digital custom trays which are a lot easier. You scan it print it and run a scotch brighter over it it is easier faster and doesn't even have to touch the model except to check passivity. Whether they're doing a full denture a partial denture a large unit case that would be how I would make my custom trays. If the doctor decides to write on the models to draw his rpds I personally at my lab don't do the rpds in house so it's one more thing I send out to the lab that fabricates my rpds which would either be Mabel or Chrome works. I've never had them complain about a model or a picture being an issue. I guess I fully don't understand what exactly your problem is? Am I responding to what the problem is or am I just talking

Ya, you answered my question.
 
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Denture Dude

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Guess I’m doing it wrong. I put two sheets thickness on the dentition and one sheet on tissue. I draw a line with a pencil and slather it all with Vaseline. Teeth break. All that Vaseline and wax has to come off etc. I just think I could dup just as fast (hand on time) 🤷‍♂️
 
Rtyrelw

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It's not much different. But try a digital one if you have a 3D printer. You just scan it tell it how much space you want it to have it takes out all undercuts and you print it.
 
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Denture Dude

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So, you so understand, you do feel my pain. Thank you.
 
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Denture Dude

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I love the digital suggestion. I definitely need to get w the program.
 
Doris A

Doris A

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After you make the tray, put it in the boilout for a few minutes before you attempt to take it off of the model. The tray will come right off and your headaches will be gone. The model will be intact.
 
CoolHandLuke

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My docs want a model back when they get the tray so they can eyeball it for preps and then they also use the model to make their design (an idea I discouraged, even with all of this the frames are often occluding on preps).
charge extra for proceeding with a design drawn on a dupe.

bad idea. very bad idea.

always design from a master model. one made with proper impression material or IOS data. dupe models are not accurate enough unless you skipped hydrocolloid and went straight to 2part silicon.
 
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Denture Dude

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charge extra for proceeding with a design drawn on a dupe.

bad idea. very bad idea.

always design from a master model. one made with proper impression material or IOS data. dupe models are not accurate enough unless you skipped hydrocolloid and went straight to 2part silicon.
Well, Im talking about docs that want to design their own frames. No way Im giving them the master model to scribble on. Im sure the frame lab would love that. Its just a reference for the design not to produce the frame. Id like to get away from allowing docs to design at all as, the last time I checked, surveying etc is nec to determine best design.
 
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Denture Dude

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no matter who designs the frame or how, it needs to be done on the master, not a dupe.
digging up this old thread. Where is my logic flawed? I send a prelim model with docs scribble design on it along with a virgin master model. Chrome lab can now use the prelim model as a rough guide and they can draw it on master model. Chrome lab knows better than I or the doc exactly how theyd like to layout the final design (based on the docs scribble) so I assumed the chrome tech would prefer to draw on master themselves. Am I the only one doing it like this? (wouldnt suprise me, Im a slow learner)
 
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Denture Dude

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Unless we're the ones making the frame Im not sure why any of us are 'designing' any frames. Unless the doc is actually surveying models etc the only benefit I see to allowing them to make designs is to make them feel like they did something.
 
CoolHandLuke

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Its just a reference for the design not to produce the frame.
you said it yourself.

and if you were receiving loose frames, theres your reason. they would be producing from a dupe instead of a master.
 
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Denture Dude

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you said it yourself.

and if you were receiving loose frames, theres your reason. they would be producing from a dupe instead of a master.
Yeah, my frames have never been produced on dup/prelim or any other model other than the master model. Not sure where you got that impression from. No pun intended.
 
rkm rdt

rkm rdt

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The magic wand we use is a Trios.
I go straight to finish from the IOS unless it’s a free end partial which is tried in.
 
lcmlabforum

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no matter who designs the frame or how, it needs to be done on the master, not a dupe.
And if you are drawing it directly on the master, that would be duplicated, it should be done with one of those Belle St Claire Wax pencil so would not pick up graphite that may work as an anti-flux . . . .just saying. LCM
 
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