Titanium milled bar opaque. What to use?

Darren S

Darren S

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OK, here's the meat of my question.I am now in an in-house lab that is having bars milled by Nobel in Titanium. What we are looking for exactly is an opaque with lucite in it for Ti. We are wanting to opaque these before we have the Lucitone 199 placed on them. Any suggestions would be helpfull. Thanks in advance and you may contact me directly 727-515-1324.

Darren :cool:
 
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Rick Sonntag

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GC Metal Primer > GC Gradia Gum Opaque > GC Composite Primer to bond to the Lucitone. Call Nancy, your local rep if you have any questions on how to use but the Gradia bonds very well to Ti and the composite primer is designed for bonding acrylic to composite as well as composite to composite.

http://www.gcamerica.com/lab/products/GRADIA/Restorative_Article_Dentally Disastrous.pdf

http://www.gcamerica.com/lab/products/GRADIA/Master_Gallery_V1N2.pdf

http://www.gcamerica.com/lab/products/GRADIA_gum_shades/article-GradiaGum.pdf

Rick
 
Darren S

Darren S

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GC Metal Primer > GC Gradia Gum Opaque > GC Composite Primer to bond to the Lucitone. Call Nancy, your local rep if you have any questions on how to use but the Gradia bonds very well to Ti and the composite primer is designed for bonding acrylic to composite as well as composite to composite.

http://www.gcamerica.com/lab/products/GRADIA/Restorative_Article_Dentally Disastrous.pdf

http://www.gcamerica.com/lab/products/GRADIA/Master_Gallery_V1N2.pdf

http://www.gcamerica.com/lab/products/GRADIA_gum_shades/article-GradiaGum.pdf

Rick

Should have made myself more clear. I am looking for a opaque that i can fire on the Ti framework. How would you repair this situation if there was ever a break?
 
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paulg100

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why on earth would you want to run a high precision milled TI bar through an unnecessary furnace cycle creating an oxide layer and stresses etc?

I would seriously re-think that idea if i were you.
 
k2 Ceramic Studio

k2 Ceramic Studio

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We have been asked to do this many times before for other labs. once the ti frme is milled just wax out the abutment interface and sandblast the frame then steam clean it and leave it in your bench for 5 min then use GC or VITA ti primer and fire, once fired do a very thin wash of B1 to kill the strong black colour then fire, and opaque with what ever shades you need. You will need use some sort of primer for the bond between the opaque and the lucitone but like I said we have done it many many times and have never ever had negetive feedback. Pete
 
JohnWilson

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Should have made myself more clear. I am looking for a opaque that i can fire on the Ti framework. How would you repair this situation if there was ever a break?

Any Ti porc will have an opaque that will stick to the bar but like Paul stated it serves no purpose and is counterproductive. Utilizing a resin based opaque and metal primer is a far superior and predictable way of opaqueing a substructure..
 
Darren S

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The thought of opaquer added was a concern of mine, in that if anything went wrong with the denture, would you have to strip everything down to do any kind of repair? Then have to fire it again, etc...... My new thought is anodizing them to a pink shade, which is being done by another lab. I've been in discussion with their lead engineer regarding this.

Now my next question is, what type of reaction will it have on the negative polarity that is in all alloys in some degree. What will it do the implants placed in the jaw? Will there be any change at all in the level of that negative polarity?
 
JohnWilson

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I worked with a company to research anodizing, we actually experimented with it in the lab. We were unable to get a true pink we could get violet and we could get purple but not anything that matched the resin as good as the gradia we use.

This company has some sort of solution not sure if its just anodizing or not.

AccuFrame Plus
 
Darren S

Darren S

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I worked with a company to research anodizing, we actually experimented with it in the lab. We were unable to get a true pink we could get violet and we could get purple but not anything that matched the resin as good as the gradia we use.

This company has some sort of solution not sure if its just anodizing or not.

AccuFrame Plus


Thanks John, give me a call tomorrow if you find the time.
 
TomZ

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I know its an old thread, thought I would show an example of the opaquing property of Gradia Gum and the options for shade.
 

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droberts

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FYI, I have found that if the bar is designed right and there is enough space at minimum 3mm of acrylic, there is no reason to opaque a bar.
This doesnt happen all the time, but something to think about. Bar width IMO does not need to be any wider than 2.5 mm. With having
the experience in welding many Ti bars using BTI bar stock (2mm) width, that was even strong enough for proper strength. So once again,
the majority of my wrap-around style bars here do not get opaqued do to that reason. If they do, I either use GC or Sebond.
 
TomZ

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Bar fabricators have default thicknesses, it doesnt have anything to do with design. Ask for thinner bars and you get pushback and no warranty. When space is an issue I mock up and copy mill. Either way, I opaque in select areas even if there is ample space.
Thanks for the beer in Chicago Danny
 
droberts

droberts

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The placement of the bar in the designing will and does make a difference as to whether the bar itself will show through the acrylic.
Also as for the default of thickness of the bar, yes there is but anyone in their right mind would not try to make a bar less than 2mm in thickness.
I sent 3 files yesterday that warned me that I may be thin in areas. Yes its a default of the software, but they still come in 4 days with a 5 year warranty.
Also when space would be limited, I do agree with a copy mill type restoration as I have done a few in the past and have posted them here on DLN.
Also to add this note: I will be presenting at the WESTERN STATES MEETING in Reno, NV September 27th, 2014.
Myth or Reality...Topic of bar design, many cases will be presented, protocol of hybrid cases, etc.
 

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