Thoughts on overseas outsourcing?

[PressTech]

I believe those labs overseas are really ruining the work for s lot of labs in the USA, we are selling our souls and business to the asians to make a quick buck meanwhile nobody wants to get in the industry and helps with the lack of technicians that we see nowadays, also FDA does not regulate those labs regardless of what they can write on a paper, we know the FDA doesn’t inspect their facilities and materials and the dentist can care less as long as they get cheaper work. This is not a plain working field, what lab in the USA can compete against a $28 Full contour zirconia crown?, may be Glidewell but their margin will be on a couple of dollars but what lab spend less than that on labor alone?, in my opinion the labs that send work overseas are shooting themselves on the foot, lets just wait and see, its a matter of time before they take over all our work.

 

[PressTech]

potentially, yes. i do not have faith in either party doing the right thing by us business owners....and i am certain youve felt the big rise in costs just like we have.
ive created a lab that has grown enough to bring 99% (and soon the last little bit!) of what products we offer in-house for a host of reasons, but it sure seems like big brother is doing all things possible to make us close up shop in favor of those outsource labs. adding another big tax on top of the invisible inflation tax is "no joke" to quote our esteemed leader....(insert sarcasm)

I really hope he does, I’ve been feeling really compelled to write and ask to look into it, is killing our business. Out of politics as I an an independent I don’t see that any party be interested really on bringing the work back from China, one party complaints about the other for doing business with China while getting everything including the American flags they use on their suits from China, USA goverment (regardless of party), continué selling our souls to the cheapest bider for a bigger profit or to save money, we can vote all the time for the party that is going to change that but if ourselves continue to send cases there nothing is going to change, we cannot ask for a change if we don’t make the change ourselves. In my honest opinion is all greed.

 

[sidesh0wb0b]

I really hope he does, I’ve been feeling really compelled to write and ask to look into it, is killing our business. Out of politics as I an an independent I don’t see that any party be interested really on bringing the work back from China, one party complaints about the other for doing business with China while getting everything including the American flags they use on their suits from China, USA goverment (regardless of party), continué selling our souls to the cheapest bider for a bigger profit or to save money, we can vote all the time for the party that is going to change that but if ourselves continue to send cases there nothing is going to change, we cannot ask for a change if we don’t make the change ourselves. In my honest opinion is all greed.

ultimately the change is coming with AI. not much will be manufactured in many industries unless by AI
all of your points are 100% spot on the money though

 

[PressTech]

There are 2 larger labs in Florida that the work comes in the door and back out again on a flight to southeast Asia. They are not secretive about it. Where else are you going to get a crown that cheaply? They know their market, and it was not mine, so I wasn't concerned.

Yeah, they now go directly to Doctors offices to offer their work, NEXT and Labo which is at the same location do that, other asian labs I know of are Trust and ,(but there are more), they scan the impressions and send the work to China or Vietman, also send the impresions, so they are increasing their presence and are not shy about it. In the case of NEXT the owner is not even a dental technician so he doesn’t know anything, is just the money what counts.

 

[PressTech]

Last time i Knew their prices were $27 full contour zirconia, $32 emax, who can bit those prices?

 

[Brett Hansen CDT]

If you just try and compete on price, you will always lose. Not all dentists are the same. The key is to find the ones that see value in what a local lab offers and make sure you are better resource to them than any other lab. Monolithic posterior zirconia crowns will be taken over by AI soon. Implant cases are where my lab has set it self apart from our local competition.

 

[grantoz]

AI is really going to hurt this end of the market kimba and i were talking about this over xmas single crown design will be pretty well covered by AI where it does struggle is with bridges and multi unit cases as dealing with things like tissue compression for each dentist on each job is a bit harder, not to mention connectors i think all labs have a form of AI now in exocad 3shape etc we will all have more advanced AI in our labs where can use less skilled people to load the scans and get an average molar out just like dentists do with dental nurses. I agree with brett hansen thats what we have focused on over the years also western wages are always going to make crowns more expensive than crowns coming from Asia its been that way for 35 years Ai will also help our profit margins and turn around times which is the great strength of being a local lab ,shades design same time and language as the dentist . the biggest under estimation of our strength as a local lab it is communication ie we can get on the phone send a text even drop in and get something sorted see the patient all of this is our strength and overseas and AI,s weakness. so play to your strengths and exploit the enemies weakness is the art of war. Remember if a dentist that contacts you now that you have never met before it means that they know its going to cost more than the overseas lab already they are looking for something better all you have to do is do it.



all i have to do is remember this myself because it does get to all of us at times

 

[bigj1972]

 

[bigj1972]

When a business becomes a bad business, let it die. Start something new so you can get on with a new success.

 

[Sean89]

If anyone has recent experience going overseas or contacts there, I am willing to pay to talk to someone further to better understand the overseas environment. I know its probably not the right path but interested in learning more!

What do need to know? here to help! Worked for years in the lab industry in Europe and the middle east. It really depends on what you want to outsource, Designs, Titanium milling or PFMs

 

[bigj1972]

 

[PressTech]

I am exploring this and have had a few overseas labs reach out to me about partnering but don't think I want to do it. Can people share their experiences with overseas labs and the process?

Hello, by sending work overseas we will dig our own grave,!its happening and will continue until we get all together and demand the goverment to stop with that practice, I aam telling you because its happening to my lab, tell me if you can compete against $39 full contour zirconia and $59 emax, more doctors are sending the work to China and Vietnam everyday because they are aggressively looking for the doctora that want to save money, forget about the “ is to sabe patients money”, that is plain BS. The lab business is digging its own grave thinking that can save also some money but on the long run they will come for your lab too, is time to wake up, China, Malasya, Vietnam ot any other country that pays pennies on the dollar for labor will take your accounts, there is not a plain field to compete. Now my question is, of any of you on this forum on agreement to sign a pettiton to de departmentnof commerce for dumping practices for those labs?, how much does it cost you to make the cheaapest full contour zirconia crown?, let me know, lets say from a digital impressions without getting printed models, using the cheapest zirconia and materials, then add your cheapaest labor possible, go to the extrmes, does a $39 crown leave you some profit?, how many of those crown do you have to manufacture to make a decent living??, be honest and answer, I need answers to get to the bottom of this, I am really doing the math and considering filling a dumping complaint on those labs with the department of commerce and Mr Kennedy as they are really making this profesión disappear, I am looking to change careers after 33 years on the industry. i really want to heat from everybody that can read this post, thank you for your time.

 

[grantoz]

i think the best thing you could do is get government to enforce a transparent cost structure ie the dentist must show how much the crown cost from the lab and where it was made because a lot of dentist blame the lab for their high fees. If you dont inform the public nothing happens.

 

[PressTech]

In my opinion The Dentist says what is convenient to them only even if is a lie, we all know their profit margin is high, lab cost is not, they blame the lab for high costs and then say that they sent the work overseas to pass the savings to the patients which is not true either. Doctors in Europe and South America are not greedy as their American counterparts, they pay there fair share but here is a different story. The long days of concern for $95 crown from Glidewell became $39 crown from China or Vietnam, I could compete some how against Glidewell, but against Next, Trust, and who knows what other labs from China, Malasya, Vietnam, etc is just not doable. Those are the name of just a few local asian labs here in south florida but i am sure there are many in every state, they are coming for our work and the goverment encourage that because medicare doesn’t pay the dentist, I was told eom an office that charges $1200 for a crown that medicare pays them only $800, so they lose $400 on the process, the result, send work to China, they ask me if i could do a mock up wax up for $12 a unit, it is just unreasonable.

 

[grantoz]

maybe trump could put a huge tariff on imported crowns that would make sense

 

[Chiolo C]

maybe trump could put a huge tariff on imported crowns that would make sense

You never know when Trump will charge his mind.
And actually many milling centre were operated by asians,
they do not have to send package pass custom.....

 

[PressTech]

maybe trump could put a huge tariff on imported crowns that would make sense

ADA and NADL already sent a letter to his assigned department to request tariffs been waived on dental equipment and materials but did not mention dental work, however it seems they avoid bringing the issue of dental work done overseas to their attention, they know what is going on and did not request to impose high tariffs or mentioned anything about it

 

[rlhhds]

i think the best thing you could do is get government to enforce a transparent cost structure ie the dentist must show how much the crown cost from the lab and where it was made because a lot of dentist blame the lab for their high fees. If you dont inform the public nothing happens.

Just to be devil's advocate here on a couple things. You have to remember that their lab fees are only a small percentage of their overhead costs, 10% to 15% from what I understand. So, just showing a patient the lab bill does not show the whole picture to their patient. Might as well make them also show what they pay for rent, staff salaries, supplies etc. while they are at it. If any business wants more profit, labs included, one of the things they must do is control costs. Remember the only cost they can really control is their lab fee. Landlord won't lower rent or employees won't work for less so it is us that take the hit. There is always going to be labs that charges more for their work and labs that charge less. Always been and will that way and always will. Not defending just saying.

 

[Foggy_in_RI]

Just to be devil's advocate here on a couple things. You have to remember that their lab fees are only a small percentage of their overhead costs, 10% to 15% from what I understand. So, just showing a patient the lab bill does not show the whole picture to their patient. Might as well make them also show what they pay for rent, staff salaries, supplies etc. while they are at it. If any business wants more profit, labs included, one of the things they must do is control costs. Remember the only cost they can really control is their lab fee. Landlord won't lower rent or employees won't work for less so it is us that take the hit. There is always going to be labs that charges more for their work and labs that charge less. Always been and will that way and always will. Not defending just saying.

We'll see what happens as the insurance companies work on the pricing/transparency issue. Its gaining momentum- states are now requiring practitioners to use x% of costs towards the direct treatment rather than inflated office staffs, bougie/boutique furnishings, etc.

 

[grantoz]

i just want them to stop blaming us for their price gouging