Thoughts on overseas outsourcing?

evanosu

evanosu

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If anyone has recent experience going overseas or contacts there, I am willing to pay to talk to someone further to better understand the overseas environment. I know its probably not the right path but interested in learning more!
Please contact me or check your private messages.
 
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grantoz

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i know Chinese labs are hurting a bit as they are sending me more advertising lately some i haven't seen for years. i feel for them i really really do .





NOT
 
Affinity

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If you want to understand the chinese lab market.. Imagine a 15 year old kid that doesnt know buccal from lingual, sat down to design your crown.. Now fill the whole lab with kids like this, then when chinese new year comes around, everyone heads back to their village and doesnt come back. I could fill a book with stories Ive heard first hand from people who are going back and forth to train these kids. This obviously does not represent the whole industry there, but when you get a finished crown back that has the buccal cusps on the lingual, you realize they dont know or care what they are doing. They are CAD widget hole fillers. If you think Im joking I can post pics.

Why anyone in NA would send their money to support communism, or even consider it is laughable.. and well thats a topic you dont want me to get in to...
 
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A. M.

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I don't even find it "laughable" anymore... But unfortunately those people only see that they save $5, or $10 or I don't even know how much...
"but when you get a finished crown back that has the buccal cusps on the lingual" and you have to sit down trim it back, and rebuild the crown IF you can do it... my question is, how much did you save???
 
Affinity

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Maybe theres a business ethics course at the local CC.

Hiring is a problem, everyone who wants to work is employed, the rest arent worth hiring. Lack of techs, lack of schools.. Sending manufacturing away from your local economy, paying to train a foreign workforce, does nothing to solve this problem. It only adds other problems that are harder to manage IMO. Anyone Ive ever met that outsources to places with slave wages is a greedy snake. And ive met several.

Buying cheap $hit at amazon has shown that the only ones getting rich are at the top. The domestic labs with foreign workers, like DDS, are chaotic at best, high turnover even in the US based lab. Communication is tough or sometimes impossible. The Drs that send there are either forced to by contract, or so bad that no one else will work with them. It works for apple, it works for nike.. they sell overpriced stuff to people who are programmed to buy it. Drs are not that way, except for maybe the GW crowd.. and even GW uses an american workforce.

American innovation is dead, sacrificed at the alter of convenience and mass slave production. The act of dropping your clients trust in you, in the mail, for a trip around the world, in the hope that what comes back might somehow put a little more butter on your biscuit proves that this is so. Dontknow
 
Sda36

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Maybe theres a business ethics course at the local CC.

Hiring is a problem, everyone who wants to work is employed, the rest arent worth hiring. Lack of techs, lack of schools.. Sending manufacturing away from your local economy, paying to train a foreign workforce, does nothing to solve this problem. It only adds other problems that are harder to manage IMO. Anyone Ive ever met that outsources to places with slave wages is a greedy snake. And ive met several.

Buying cheap $hit at amazon has shown that the only ones getting rich are at the top. The domestic labs with foreign workers, like DDS, are chaotic at best, high turnover even in the US based lab. Communication is tough or sometimes impossible. The Drs that send there are either forced to by contract, or so bad that no one else will work with them. It works for apple, it works for nike.. they sell overpriced stuff to people who are programmed to buy it. Drs are not that way, except for maybe the GW crowd.. and even GW uses an american workforce.

American innovation is dead, sacrificed at the alter of convenience and mass slave production. The act of dropping your clients trust in you, in the mail, for a trip around the world, in the hope that what comes back might somehow put a little more butter on your biscuit proves that this is so. Dontknow
Spot On
 
Affinity

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albeit long-winded haha
 
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A. M.

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I would also add that people don't have a drive... to do the work, or do a good work...
Some people show up at work, do something, they don't care, and their mindset is hey I was here 8 hours, pay me for it.
We have the college here in Toronto, people finish it and they come out of school that they know everything and even the school tells them how much they should make as a starting wage... (and it's a number that I saw in an ad the other day, that required 10 years of experience)
And since they know everything it's hard to teach them.
But I've met people, they learned on the job, do beautiful work, and very talented...
 
CatamountRob

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I would also add that people don't have a drive... to do the work, or do a good work...
Some people show up at work, do something, they don't care, and their mindset is hey I was here 8 hours, pay me for it.
We have the college here in Toronto, people finish it and they come out of school that they know everything and even the school tells them how much they should make as a starting wage... (and it's a number that I saw in an ad the other day, that required 10 years of experience)
And since they know everything it's hard to teach them.
But I've met people, they learned on the job, do beautiful work, and very talented...
So, what is the suggested starting wage from the schools? Burger King starts people here out at $14 an hour…
 
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A. M.

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We had a student 3-4 years ago. That time she said it should be $20 an hour...
We had a guy here about 2 years ago looking for a job, he had about a year Cad/Cam experience, he wanted $30 an hour, he said he can do everything, and he would give you 45 units a day (scanned, designed, milled, and painted... all in 8 hours)
 
Affinity

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45 units a day? Maybe give him a math test if he wants the job. 45 units takes 10-11 hours to mill. Unless hes an alien or pro gamer, you couldnt possibly design 45 units in a day and still have 1 minute to go to the bathroom, let alone glaze 45 units.. But hey pathological liars are par for the course in dental lab hiring. I wouldve hired him though! If he makes me over $7000 a day and only wants $240 of it (before taxes of course).. beautiful.
 
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Because you do the job, you know how long it takes to mill 45 units, you know right away it's bs... so I came out of the office, tried not to laugh in his face as he was so serious
After I came out, the guy told the boss that he can let me go, he won't need me anymore if he hires him because he can do everything alone...
Not glazing the crowns, but pre-sintering stains
 
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grantoz

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my favorite was a young guy straight out of college he looked me in the eye and said ill be honest with i wont be doing any plaster work ok thats it take it or leave it. His next statement was why are you laughing. i took him around the lab for some fun and education and introduced him to our staff and told him to tell my staff what he had just said . Honestly after the 3rd time he still asked me why are people laughing this guy didnt have a learning disability or anything like that he just had the biggest ego and had been drinking the college coolade.
 
JMN

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my favorite was a young guy straight out of college he looked me in the eye and said ill be honest with i wont be doing any plaster work ok thats it take it or leave it. His next statement was why are you laughing. i took him around the lab for some fun and education and introduced him to our staff and told him to tell my staff what he had just said . Honestly after the 3rd time he still asked me why are people laughing this guy didnt have a learning disability or anything like that he just had the biggest ego and had been drinking the college coolade.
Best story on college kids meeting real work I've heard was new college kid handed a broom to which he said
"Oh, I didn't go to college to sweep."

"Here, let me show you how then. If you can't be trusted with the least things, you won't see or touch the highest ones."

Kid quit after a week. It was a flipping bank.
 
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Rockit1

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I am exploring this and have had a few overseas labs reach out to me about partnering but don't think I want to do it. Can people share their experiences with overseas labs and the process?
Our Drs try to shop our prices against offshore milling centers. Three sides of the dental triangle…price-time-quality…never the 3 shall meet.
 
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9milli

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As a guy who had been working for D*G/D*S in China, and N*X in Vietnam,

Maybe i can give some advice.

a,preparation, Both you and your partner need FDA reg number for custom clearance.

It's not complicated for a US lab to register FDA, in 2020 FDA charge 5236 USD for annual fee, and would increase a little bit in every year. You should concern this in spending.


b, the turn around time normally would be 7-10 days (shipping by UPS/FEDEX),

2 days transport from US to Asia , 3~4 days productive time,1 day transport from Asia to US, and 1 day preparing shipment and invoice to clinic. May need 1~2 more days if you want double check the production.
For international trading i suggest you to use UPS, Fedex has trouble frequently in custom clearance. But for domestic transport, UPS is crappy.


c, About the transport fee,
there is no advantage to do outsourcing if you have only sevral cases in every shipment. When the quantity rise to 20 case ,the transport fee will reduce to 3~5 USD per every case. The big net lab groups could have 800~2000 cases in every parcel, and the transport cost would as low as 1 USD per case.
Usually 7-8 fixed case weight 1kg, 2-3 removable cases weight 1kg. You can make calculating by your self.

d,The general price you would receive.
15-25USD for PFM
30-40USD for full contour Zr
40-55USD for layered Zr or E-max
30-50USD for Arcylic denture
20-40USD for Co Cr framework
I suggest that don't only search for low price,
steady quality and delivery on time are more important.

It's not so easy like 2010s to do outsourcing business in the traditional way nowadays, but still could earn margins if you are good in operating.
Many outsourcing net labs start investing in mill centres, which could save turn around time, and made in USA!
Hoping This Helps
Hi, do you mind contacting me to give me some info about some contacts overseas? I have some general software work that I need to outsource ... basically: placing virtual implants and virtual crowns in CBCT software. No physical products. I am looking for an overseas dental lab to do these for me... have about 1500 per month . Thank you!
 
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9milli

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I am also looking for an overseas company that'll do basic 3shape dental system work -- preparing models with model builder, virtual waxups, maybe some simple abutment and crown design, surgical guides design and export; again... all digital planning, no actual physical products required. Which companies are the go-to for this type of thing?
 
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9milli

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You wont get the product you want to get.
Thats cause you dont do it.
One of the big problems with China is that they are so HARD to understand and they have a HARD time with understanding you.
Most of the labs there are hundreds of techs in different type of levels. sometimes you will get excellent job, sometimes this job need repair for 2 or 3 times and you dont have the time to send it back or to fix it yourself.
The only thing I sourcing out is Digital designs in exocad that I can repair myself.

Hope I helped. Good luck :)
Who do you send your design work to? I am looking for someone to do basic implant planning and digital waxups
 
Affinity

Affinity

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1500 a month? Is this Dr Dandy?
 

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