This may be my last thread.

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#1
Im embarrassed to not know some things, but Ive got the balls to ask.
Printed models. You need model builder software, a printer, cure unit, and Im sure some other things Im not up to speed on, and they all cost money. In the end, no matter if you use stone or technology, you still have a model.

Here we go. Why not pour an impression with model resin?
 
JMN

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#2
Curing issues. the light only penetrates a certain depth also consistancy of pattern replication. You can pour a bit, cure, pour, cure, etc. But the layers will not be uniform in expansion or even adhesion to each other.

Edit:
And I'll keep saying it.
It's not stupid to not know information to which you've not been exposed.
Exposed. Light cure. hehe
 
HygienicBee

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#3
Like JMN said, the way most dental 3d printers work is they have to cure very thin layers of resin to the build platform of the printer. Now comes the issue with layers sticking to each other, the build platform needs to press down onto the screen that flashes the UV light in the shape of the layer, this bonds the layers together accurately. Now many printers have slightly different ways of curing their resins but they typically all have the same method for building models.
 
Wainwright

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#4
@JMN is correct.

Super basic answer here to add.

Stone is cheap and simple because it's been used and perfected over many many decades. Photopolymers (model resins) are complex and expensive.

Eventually, we won't need models, right? :) (this is half sarcasm, in my opinion, we are a decade away from models going out of style)
 
Contraluz

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#6
Printed models. You need model builder software, a printer, cure unit, and Im sure some other things Im not up to speed on, and they all cost money. In the end, no matter if you use stone or technology, you still have a model.

Here we go. Why not pour an impression with model resin?
I want to add, we use digital/printed models because our clients (dentists) use intra oral scanners... If that would not be the case, there are very limited applications/needs for printed models.
 
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#7
I guess I could have thought this through. I have impulse control issues. Keyboard needs a delay.
 
sidesh0wb0b

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#8
Im embarrassed to not know some things, but Ive got the balls to ask.
Printed models. You need model builder software, a printer, cure unit, and Im sure some other things Im not up to speed on, and they all cost money. In the end, no matter if you use stone or technology, you still have a model.

Here we go. Why not pour an impression with model resin?
lots of reasons. it takes minutes of labor to design and send to print. it takes hours of labor to make analog models. if you could go home, and come in the next day to have your models printed without the labor of someone making them...wouldnt you want that? (these are ideal presumptions of course, everything comes out perfect, etc)
 
sidesh0wb0b

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#9
@JMN is correct.

Super basic answer here to add.

Stone is cheap and simple because it's been used and perfected over many many decades. Photopolymers (model resins) are complex and expensive.

Eventually, we won't need models, right? :) (this is half sarcasm, in my opinion, we are a decade away from models going out of style)
i think youre being generous and giving it a decade.
 
S

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#10
Even if we could cure that resin in the impression it would be a solid model. Resin is too expensive to do solid models. I am able to create hollow models where I am just getting half of each adjacent tooth to check the contact after glazing. I never have to add contacts and the occlusion is spot on. It takes me 2 min to design a model and then I batch print and walk away. When they are done printing 2-4 hours later I put the units in a wash and when the cycle is done I put them in the cure unit. All in all there is practically zero labor on my part and the models are extremely accurate. I have it down to about 3ml of liquid resin per model. At $150 per liter I am paying about $.50 per model.
Add to that the formlab printers I have cost around $3400 and the wash and cure systems together are around $1000 I find it SO much cheaper and accurate to scan the impressions (which take a couple of minutes longer than a model but you have to consider that I am going to scan the model anyways) and design a model than to pour up, cut, trim, prepare, break, re-pour, curse.... The investment in the software and printers seems huge at first but the return is massive!
Also, formlabs just came out with a denture resin where you can print the base and the teeth at a fraction of the cost and time compared to the traditional methods.
There is almost zero waste in printing models.
 
Affinity

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#11
I dont care how its made, I just care if its accurate. Dont pee on my leg and tell me its raining.. a printed model, is not as accurate or detailed as a stone model with pvs. That doesnt mean its not usable, its certainly detailed enough to work on, but if youre designing from a scan anyway, I dont see the point.. check your contacts and occlusion on a printed model? Why? Because the scan isnt accurate enough? Ive looked at enough dies under the scope to know that youre not going to get that detail in a printed model.. So whats new? Everyone has their shortcuts, doesnt make it better.
 
CoolHandLuke

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#12
you know what would be cool?

imagine instead of pouring impressions or filling impressions with plaster/stone/resin/polydie you spraycoat the impression like a truck bed liner.

you'd get a skin instead of a solid. might be nifty.

to acheive this maybe fill a spray gun with resin and ash/fiber filler. spray on, let dry, pop out.
 
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Scott Bradley

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#14
, but if youre designing from a scan anyway, I dont see the point.. check your contacts and occlusion on a printed model?
In the event that your glaze is too thick. have you ever had that problem? I may have only been a tech for 17yrs but I have seen and done a lot with the analog and digital. I have never in my career seen the accuracy of a printed model. I have doctors all across the states telling me that they have been in business for over 30 years and they have never seen crowns fit this precisely before. I've actually had 2 relatively new doctors just last week tell me almost the exact same thing "you know what I can't get used to? everything fitting perfectly and 10 min seat times". One takes a polyvinyl impression and the other sends me a digital scan. I scan the impression with one and design on the others. It sounds like you might be a little fearful of technology and what it can do. There is a very slow learning curve to make it right but you can find help here. I started with the Cercon machine and the old Procera Mod 40 (precursor to the Piccalo) and waxing crowns and copings with a bunson burner. Things were cool back then but they also sucked. Technology is getting better everyday. If someone doesn't know what they are doing then yes, the digital print can be terrible. But if you have an educated person doing the task it's perfect. I think everyone could benefit from adding tech to their daily workload but if you are getting older and have not yet jumped into the world, maybe don't. The work has been good for you so far and it will fall apart when you start learning again.
I read above that you can teach someone off the street about designing a crown in a couple of hours but they won't know about the intricacies of the art. True! But you take someone who knows and can create from nothing and teach them to design a functional and beautiful crown? Good things can come from that!
 
JMN

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#15
We just need to get docs to understand that 'margin' is a definate point we need to see not a range like their stock investments.
 
JMN

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#16
In the event that your glaze is too thick. have you ever had that problem? I may have only been a tech for 17yrs but I have seen and done a lot with the analog and digital. I have never in my career seen the accuracy of a printed model. I have doctors all across the states telling me that they have been in business for over 30 years and they have never seen crowns fit this precisely before. I've actually had 2 relatively new doctors just last week tell me almost the exact same thing "you know what I can't get used to? everything fitting perfectly and 10 min seat times". One takes a polyvinyl impression and the other sends me a digital scan. I scan the impression with one and design on the others. It sounds like you might be a little fearful of technology and what it can do. There is a very slow learning curve to make it right but you can find help here. I started with the Cercon machine and the old Procera Mod 40 (precursor to the Piccalo) and waxing crowns and copings with a bunson burner. Things were cool back then but they also sucked. Technology is getting better everyday. If someone doesn't know what they are doing then yes, the digital print can be terrible. But if you have an educated person doing the task it's perfect. I think everyone could benefit from adding tech to their daily workload but if you are getting older and have not yet jumped into the world, maybe don't. The work has been good for you so far and it will fall apart when you start learning again.
I read above that you can teach someone off the street about designing a crown in a couple of hours but they won't know about the intricacies of the art. True! But you take someone who knows and can create from nothing and teach them to design a functional and beautiful crown? Good things can come from that!
It's getting things dialed in that makes the grief.
 
JMN

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#18
helps to approve the post before you reply lol
That was totally on purpose. Creating suspense to enrich the experience.
Been taking that J.J. Abrams home study course on movie making. Any idea how to make lens flares in text?
 
rkm rdt

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#19
you know what would be cool?

imagine instead of pouring impressions or filling impressions with plaster/stone/resin/polydie you spraycoat the impression like a truck bed liner.

you'd get a skin instead of a solid. might be nifty.

to acheive this maybe fill a spray gun with resin and ash/fiber filler. spray on, let dry, pop out.
Wouldn't it get all over the monitor?
 
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