Tax

[Davesgone]

Great!! We are being punished for having a small business and forced to pay a tax!! Gooood grief! I still love my business and what I do.

 

[SiKBOY]

I've skimmed over this thread quickly but maybe I'm missing something,

I understand that the tax is paid on the final medical device that the patient leaves the surgery with.

Can you not make the final price of the restoration minimal (say $25 for a emax) and make up the price loss by charging $200 for model work or anything that is not taxable?

 

[JMN]

Since in many/most/all cases the Dr. placing the "device" is adjusting it in some fashion, couldn't it be said that we are reselling to a final manufacturer and just let the Dr. deal with it? Modification of a (highly specific and customized) substrate to a fully patient-specific functioning device (due to tooth movement due to 2-3 week lag from impression to placement) would make the Dr. the last manufacturer.
Just change your bill to read something other than a finished device.

Possible? Sounds similar to Mary Joe Kopeckne died of drowning while riding with Sen. Ted Kennedy in a dense fog. (that sentence was really published!)

I know this is a heck of a place to jump in, but been reading and learning from you all for a while now. Thanks for sharing your wisdom, knowledge, headaches and failures to the betterment of us all.

 

[Mark Jackson]

As I've stated elsewhere, if you think this tax is going to be a problem (and NO, you can't get around it any easier than you can payroll taxes or sales taxes (if your state has them). The penalties are big, and they won't play around with any nonsense on the invoice.

The health care costs to employers is going to be a tough pill to swallow.

 

[Rex Kramer]

So, will Cerac and E4D dentists be taxed on manufacturing crowns?

 

[CatamountRob]

So, will Cerac and E4D dentists be taxed on manufacturing crowns?

Yes.

 

[victormasi]

I have a "Medical Device" I would like to hide in the "Obamacare originators!!
Guess Where.......

 

[Al.]

As I've stated elsewhere, if you think this tax is going to be a problem (and NO, you can't get around it any easier than you can payroll taxes or sales taxes (if your state has them). The penalties are big, and they won't play around with any nonsense on the invoice.

The health care costs to employers is going to be a tough pill to swallow.

Mark I read somewhere you said it's not uncommon for large high volume, lower priced labs to have profit margins of 5 to 10%.
If that is true, and they try to absorb the new tax rather than line item it on their bill like with sales tax, wouldn't the tax be taking between 25 to almost 50% of their profits?

 

[Mark Jackson]

Mark I read somewhere you said it's not uncommon for large high volume, lower priced labs to have profit margins of 5 to 10%.
If that is true, and they try to absorb the new tax rather than line item it on their bill like with sales tax, wouldn't the tax be taking between 25 to almost 50% of their profits?

Yep. NADX labs used to run 6-7%, some even less.

This is going to hurt some labs for sure. Whether they raise their prices or add it as a line item, it's painful. Some labs will add it on, others will eat it. I can see the wisdom in doing it both ways.

 

[doug]

Sounds similar to Mary Joe Kopeckne died of drowning while riding with Sen. Ted Kennedy in a dense fog.

Wow, Grabbing an obscure reference like that gets you at least 10 karma points.

 

[Rex Kramer]

Yes.

So will they be paying tax on the fee they charge patient?

 

[Tom Moore]

So will they be paying tax on the fee they charge patient?

I sell work to dentists that charge the patients much different prices for the work I sell them. Is one stupid and charging to little or is one greedy and charging to much. Not my business. My business is to be profitable and there are lots of ways to get to that place.

 

[Rex Kramer]

I sell work to dentists that charge the patients much different prices for the work I sell them. Is one stupid and charging to little or is one greedy and charging to much. Not my business. My business is to be profitable and there are lots of ways to get to that place.

Tom, Im talking about the inhouse cerac/e4d dentists that will have to pay the tax. Im just curious as to how they will be taxed, 2.3% per $1000/unit? Or whatever their fee is. If so, there's gonna be some pissed off dentists out there.

 

[CatamountRob]

Tom, Im talking about the inhouse cerac/e4d dentists that will have to pay the tax. Im just curious as to how they will be taxed, 2.3% per $1000/unit? Or whatever their fee is. If so, there's gonna be some pissed off dentists out there.

That's an interesting question. My guess would be that they can itemize the bill and give the crown a value and pay tax on that portion, but I don't know.

.......and since a Cerac crown is worth $1.29.......

 

[doug]

I think that much like you can't pull a number out of thin air for the value of certain items on your tax return without documentation, it will be the same for tax on Cerec/E4D crowns in the office. The Treasury Dept has a good way of placing an accurate value on items. And they stick to their guns. My late Father-in-law was an IRS agent for 33 years. He had lots of stories, and some that even bothered him when they took stuff from families.

 

[Tom Moore]

I would guess the law that was voted on and put in place by elected Representatives will evolve with lots of rules of enforcement by bureaucrats. I am afraid this will get worse until................

 

[CatamountRob]

I would guess the law that was voted on and put in place by elected Representatives will evolve with lots of rules of enforcement by bureaucrats. I am afraid this will get worse until................

.......it becomes too much to take. All it took was a tax on tea the last time.

 

[PCDL]

After reading this thread and talking to a few folks, I called my accountant before freaking out. After he did his thing, one item popped up on the radar. As it turns out, due to the vague nature of the language, the ADA has requested a ruling on dental prosthetics, and is trying to make the case against our industry's inclusion into the excise tax; based on how dentistry is not technically under the umbrella of universal healthcare.

No ruling has been made so far, I was told, but it's expected this quarter. Possibly a glimmer of hope??

 

[Al.]

I would guess the law that was voted on and put in place by elected Representatives will evolve with lots of rules of enforcement by bureaucrats. I am afraid this will get worse until................

Untill the Rebel Yell is revived.

 

[corona]

That's an interesting question. My guess would be that they can itemize the bill and give the crown a value and pay tax on that portion, but I don't know.

.......and since a Cerac crown is worth $1.29.......

Its my understanding that since now the dentist has become the manufacturer and the patient is the end user ...then the dentist should be charged on the gross sales of the unit , just like we are . They only get to itemize as much as we do . This is hope for us , the dentist have more lobbying power than we do . So if a dentist charged say: 1000. then 2.3 % of that to obama care . OUCH