Sterilization

[JKraver]

I would imagine Arkham would be better suited for you.

 

[AJEL]

Is it tuberculocidal?

Both are tuberculoid so, and the chlorox is listed for C Dif. Clostridium difficile. The chlorox spray hasn't effected any surface in lab so far, and with a quick kill easy cleaning. Not unpleasant smell, or noxious fumes.

 

[JMN]

The hydrogen peroxide cleaner can be ordered from Walmart I get a gallon and refil my spray bottle.
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Clorox-3...4806&wl11=online&wl12=100921179&wl13=&veh=sem

You can get a free 32 oz sample here
https://www.cloroxprofessional.com/...n-peroxide-cleaner-disinfectants/at-a-glance/

Looks like so many of us hit the sample site they pulled that option. Whoops!

 

[Doris A]

Looks like so many of us hit the sample site they pulled that option. Whoops!

The fine print said while supplies last, so we must have deleted their supply.

 

[NZClinician]

We need to separate sterilisation from disinfection. Sterilisation of mops is 'practicably' impossible. We should clear that up from the start.

This is for 3 reasons. 1. To sterilise you have to remove ALL debris before sterilisation. Realistically not possible deep within the mop. 2. You need temperatures of about 121 degrees C to kill virus spores. Boiling water is nowhere close to satisfactory and pointless. 3. Because you can't remove all debris you cannot guarantee that autoclaves have sterilise. Not to mention that it deteriorates the mops.

The only 'guarantee' of cleanliness, and its probably still doesn't come under the umbrella of sterilisation, is a brand new mop for each job. Anyone going to do that? Unlikely. Or as a reasonable best effort you clean mops as well as you can, then soak in bleach or similar product, then rinse off ready for next job. Maybe you could use old mops for repairs etc, new mops for new jobs. Two different areas for polishing new and old. One use for repairs, multiple use for new jobs. FYI you cannot sterilise dentures, not without distortion, so don't put them in your microwave or autoclave.


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[JMN]

Free samples are back!


https://www.cloroxprofessional.com/...n-peroxide-cleaner-disinfectants/at-a-glance/

 

[sidesh0wb0b]

We need to separate sterilisation from disinfection. Sterilisation of mops is 'practicably' impossible. We should clear that up from the start.

This is for 3 reasons. 1. To sterilise you have to remove ALL debris before sterilisation. Realistically not possible deep within the mop. 2. You need temperatures of about 121 degrees C to kill virus spores. Boiling water is nowhere close to satisfactory and pointless. 3. Because you can't remove all debris you cannot guarantee that autoclaves have sterilise. Not to mention that it deteriorates the mops.

The only 'guarantee' of cleanliness, and its probably still doesn't come under the umbrella of sterilisation, is a brand new mop for each job. Anyone going to do that? Unlikely. Or as a reasonable best effort you clean mops as well as you can, then soak in bleach or similar product, then rinse off ready for next job. Maybe you could use old mops for repairs etc, new mops for new jobs. Two different areas for polishing new and old. One use for repairs, multiple use for new jobs. FYI you cannot sterilise dentures, not without distortion, so don't put them in your microwave or autoclave.


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please don't use bleach on anything that could contaminate something going in the mouth. bleach is bad bad stuff. there are many other options!

 

[kcdt]

We need to separate sterilisation from disinfection. Sterilisation of mops is 'practicably' impossible. We should clear that up from the start.

This is for 3 reasons. 1. To sterilise you have to remove ALL debris before sterilisation. Realistically not possible deep within the mop. 2. You need temperatures of about 121 degrees C to kill virus spores. Boiling water is nowhere close to satisfactory and pointless. 3. Because you can't remove all debris you cannot guarantee that autoclaves have sterilise. Not to mention that it deteriorates the mops.

The only 'guarantee' of cleanliness, and its probably still doesn't come under the umbrella of sterilisation, is a brand new mop for each job. Anyone going to do that? Unlikely. Or as a reasonable best effort you clean mops as well as you can, then soak in bleach or similar product, then rinse off ready for next job. Maybe you could use old mops for repairs etc, new mops for new jobs. Two different areas for polishing new and old. One use for repairs, multiple use for new jobs. FYI you cannot sterilise dentures, not without distortion, so don't put them in your microwave or autoclave.


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I beg to differ aboutmicrowaving dentures.
There is ample peer reviewed research that discusses this.
Thanks anyway.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/09687113/

http://www.webmd.com/oral-health/news/20030611/microwave-zaps-denture-germs

http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?script=sci_arttext&pid=S0103-64402005000200006

http://www.nbcnews.com/health/dirty-dentures-dangerous-mrsa-may-be-lurking-dentists-say-662637

These took two seconds of googling.

 

[denturist-student]

You really open a Pandora's box when you talk about sterilization and infection prevention protocols for HCP's. Ultimately we regard everything as a potential source for cross contamination or self contamination. In my practice which is exclusively outpatient calls to nursing homes and hospitals, I make as many things as disposable as I can....It is a never ending battle to keep on top of everything when it comes to HCP protocols....and to prevent cross and self contamination of the various appliances I provide...I have a separate area for potentially infectious receivables ie impressions, the carrying bags I use, bite registrations, etc....I mainly use Cavicide as my first line of defense....Everything coming into the lab gets washed and sprayed down with it........moreover when I am on an outpatient call I bring all my garbage back with me and leave nothing at the site....I have a series of six bags I use for various procedures and I withdraw everything and spray everything down between uses...it gets cumbersome....I could go on for several chapters here...but will leave it at that....take care and keep well...

 

[NZClinician]

You really open a Pandora's box when you talk about sterilization and infection prevention protocols for HCP's. Ultimately we regard everything as a potential source for cross contamination or self contamination. In my practice which is exclusively outpatient calls to nursing homes and hospitals, I make as many things as disposable as I can....It is a never ending battle to keep on top of everything when it comes to HCP protocols....and to prevent cross and self contamination of the various appliances I provide...I have a separate area for potentially infectious receivables ie impressions, the carrying bags I use, bite registrations, etc....I mainly use Cavicide as my first line of defense....Everything coming into the lab gets washed and sprayed down with it........moreover when I am on an outpatient call I bring all my garbage back with me and leave nothing at the site....I have a series of six bags I use for various procedures and I withdraw everything and spray everything down between uses...it gets cumbersome....I could go on for several chapters here...but will leave it at that....take care and keep well...

Yes I would agree doing out patient calls is very difficult and messy. To manage You sound like you have a good handle on it.


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[NZClinician]

I beg to differ aboutmicrowaving dentures.
There is ample peer reviewed research that discusses this.
Thanks anyway.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/09687113/

http://www.webmd.com/oral-health/news/20030611/microwave-zaps-denture-germs

http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?script=sci_arttext&pid=S0103-64402005000200006

http://www.nbcnews.com/health/dirty-dentures-dangerous-mrsa-may-be-lurking-dentists-say-662637

These took two seconds of googling.

They are interesting articles and similar to others I've read. There's lots of variables that are not tested or covered however. Also when looking at articles I'm always wary of ones that refer to microorganisms or virus as 'Bugs' or seem to use disinfected and sterilised interchangeably. We've looked at microwave as a form of disinfection but chose not to pursue because it isn't for every appliance but mostly because I have had dentures not fitting as well afterwards and not willing to take the risk again going forward. Hence my warning about distortion. If you want to kill micro organisations another theory is to take the dentures out and let them 'dry out' overnight after cleaning.

Do you microwave all your dentures? I'm really interested to know your experience on outcomes dimensionally wise. Eg have your patients noted any difference.

Also it would be interesting to know how long have you been doing this and what method you use? Eg time, microwave wattage (is this what's written on the microwave or what you tested it as?) and how the denture(S) were held/positioned. How many denture units do you do at one time? (Obviously different patient dentures wouldn't be placed together in same container, but do you do more than one container at a time)




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[denturist-student]

Yes I would agree doing out patient calls is very difficult and messy. To manage You sound like you have a good handle on it.


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Thanks....The most difficult part are the patients who lack motor skills to tolerate long procedures or complicated procedures such as pin tracings....Usually they cannot tolerate too much change either so if we see something that is not normal we sometimes need to accept their tolerance to re adapt or change....Sometimes I will make the denture that accommodates their disability....that becomes really challenging especially since we are all taught to set up dentures with class I perfect models....Even taking a simple bite registration is challenging to some patients...We need to think outside the box a lot in those cases.....about 80% of my cases are like that.

 

[kcdt]

They are interesting articles and similar to others I've read. There's lots of variables that are not tested or covered however. Also when looking at articles I'm always wary of ones that refer to microorganisms or virus as 'Bugs' or seem to use disinfected and sterilised interchangeably. We've looked at microwave as a form of disinfection but chose not to pursue because it isn't for every appliance but mostly because I have had dentures not fitting as well afterwards and not willing to take the risk again going forward. Hence my warning about distortion. If you want to kill micro organisations another theory is to take the dentures out and let them 'dry out' overnight after cleaning.

Do you microwave all your dentures? I'm really interested to know your experience on outcomes dimensionally wise. Eg have your patients noted any difference.

Also it would be interesting to know how long have you been doing this and what method you use? Eg time, microwave wattage (is this what's written on the microwave or what you tested it as?) and how the denture(S) were held/positioned. How many denture units do you do at one time? (Obviously different patient dentures wouldn't be placed together in same container, but do you do more than one container at a time)




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Letting denture resin dessicate will introduce deformational strain.

I processed all my denture bases by microwave daily for ~15years.
If it's in a flask it won't deform.
If it's in a dish of water, then I'd stick to recommended wattages/time referred to in the studies.
I've never experienced anything that would ruin the fit.

 

[NZClinician]

Letting denture resin dessicate will introduce deformational strain.

I processed all my denture bases by microwave daily for ~15years.
If it's in a flask it won't deform.
If it's in a dish of water, then I'd stick to recommended wattages/time referred to in the studies.
I've never experienced anything that would ruin the fit.

Like I said, it's a theory, some recommend drying out. And yes I also understand your concerns too. I first heard it at a conference lecture. Sounds like you don't disinfect in microwave. You process in the microwave. If you do 'disinfect' please explain your process. Your process. Don't fob off to articles. Tell us what you do. Your experience is what this site is about. We can all read articles.


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[kcdt]

So my anecdotal opinion is superior to empirical research?
Not likely.

So I'll try again.

Let me illustrate:

"Thereafter, the specimens were assigned to 3 groups (n=10),as follows: group I (control) was not submitted to any disinfection cycle; group II was submitted to microwave disinfection for 3 min at 500 W; and in group III microwaving was done for 10 min at 604 W. The acrylic bases were fixed on their respective casts with instant adhesive (Super Bonder®) and the base/cast sets were sectioned transversally in the posterior palatal zone. The existence of gaps between the casts and acrylic bases was assessed using a profile projector at 5 points. No statistically significant differences were observed between the control group and group II. However, group III differed statistically from the others (p<0.05). Treatment in microwave oven at 604 W for 10 min produced the greatest discrepancies in the adaptation of maxillary acrylic resin denture bases to the stone casts."

This came from the third study listed.
It details concerns about base distortion at higher times/ wattages.
Group ii was listed at 500w/3min. That is the polymerization range listed for the resin I used.
I would say if you have concern about distortion, then flask it and allow it to cool completely.


Fair enough?

P.S.
Not to be a ****, but if you can read, then you surely must have read about not allowing PMMA to dessicate in your basic material science section of your dental technology textbook.

People say all kind of bull**** in lectures. A unfounded statement is just that, regardless of whose gaping maw it came out of.

 

[JMN]

I'm still trying to find a 500w microwave.

A common misconception is that a normal off the shelf 1000w microwave at 50% is doing 500w. They always put out the rated/listed wattage, unless you have a very very special oven.
The power level adjustment is actually more like dwell time than power attenuation. It's roughly how much time as a percentage of the total run time the oven is 'ovening' with the magnetron energized instead of just turning on the light and spinning the plate. You can hear it.

This is to allow the heat to spread through things that's molecules don't get easily excited by RF. Like ice, meat (especially frozen),and generally most non-liquids. Water, some sugars, and most fats dissipate the heat fairly evenly. Nearly everything else has a dissipation lag. This is the cause of warping when heated for too long of a period by a microwave. Inconsistent heating leads to inconsistent expansion and sets up for odd stresses when cooling as well.

 

[kcdt]

I'm still trying to find a 500w microwave.

A common misconception is that a normal off the shelf 1000w microwave at 50% is doing 500w. They always put out the rated/listed wattage, unless you have a very very special oven.
The power level adjustment is actually more like dwell time than power attenuation. It's roughly how much time as a percentage of the total run time the oven is 'ovening' with the magnetron energized instead of just turning on the light and spinning the plate. You can hear it.

This is to allow the heat to spread through things that's molecules don't get easily excited by RF. Like ice, meat (especially frozen),and generally most non-liquids. Water, some sugars, and most fats dissipate the heat fairly evenly. Nearly everything else has a dissipation lag. This is the cause of warping when heated for too long of a period by a microwave. Inconsistent heating leads to inconsistent expansion and sets up for odd stresses when cooling as well.

I used a 1000watt at "5" of ten.
I had consistent results a terrific fit.
Not something that keeps me up at night

 

[JMN]

I used a 1000watt at "5" of ten.
I had consistent results a terrific fit.
Not something that keeps me up at night

Groovy! Thanks.

 

[NZClinician]

So my anecdotal opinion is superior to empirical research?
Not likely.

So I'll try again.

Let me illustrate:

"Thereafter, the specimens were assigned to 3 groups (n=10),as follows: group I (control) was not submitted to any disinfection cycle; group II was submitted to microwave disinfection for 3 min at 500 W; and in group III microwaving was done for 10 min at 604 W. The acrylic bases were fixed on their respective casts with instant adhesive (Super Bonder[emoji768]) and the base/cast sets were sectioned transversally in the posterior palatal zone. The existence of gaps between the casts and acrylic bases was assessed using a profile projector at 5 points. No statistically significant differences were observed between the control group and group II. However, group III differed statistically from the others (p<0.05). Treatment in microwave oven at 604 W for 10 min produced the greatest discrepancies in the adaptation of maxillary acrylic resin denture bases to the stone casts."

This came from the third study listed.
It details concerns about base distortion at higher times/ wattages.
Group ii was listed at 500w/3min. That is the polymerization range listed for the resin I used.
I would say if you have concern about distortion, then flask it and allow it to cool completely.


Fair enough?

P.S.
Not to be a ****, but if you can read, then you surely must have read about not allowing PMMA to dessicate in your basic material science section of your dental technology textbook.

People say all kind of bull**** in lectures. A unfounded statement is just that, regardless of whose gaping maw it came out of.

Superior? Hardly. Just another angle to view a process. Making assessment based on theory and realtime practice is always best.

I can only assume, because you keep referring to articles anyone can read, that you have only ever read a couple of articles and don't actually disinfect with microwave.

Anyway. Thanks for a couple more articles to read.


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[kcdt]

Superior? Hardly. Just another angle to view a process. Making assessment based on theory and realtime practice is always best.

I can only assume, because you keep referring to articles anyone can read, that you have only ever read a couple of articles and don't actually disinfect with microwave.

Anyway. Thanks for a couple more articles to read.


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I've fabricated removable prosthetics for more than three decades. Sometimes clinically, sometimes not. In that time I've met myriads of denturists and dentists who were clueless about the materials they employ. Citing clinical experience begs the issue:
Unless you are culturing every prosthesis that crosses your path to quantify your statements, it's all rank speculation.
That's why I give a crap about research.