Smoother Pressings with Yeti Lube for real !

[charles007]

Just wanted to thank the tech that suggested using YETI Lube. I now getting the smoothest, bubble free emax pressing I've ever seen with it, and using Ivoclar Press Vest Speed ......... I had been using Degudent Isolit lube which is a great die lube.......
Has anyone ever diluted Yeti Lube with water and used as a debubblizer on the outside of the pattern ?
Yes, I know you aren't suppose to use a debubblizer ....... and I don't.

Charles

 

[AL1]

All I use is Yeti lube and Microstar investment. I get the cleanest pressings and castings.

 

[2thbob]

AL1: I use microstar for most of my casting except for beauty-cast on my F.C. golds, and have only used Press-Vest Speed for e.max. Have you used the press-vest and the microstar for e.max? How do they compare? What ratios work for you?

 

[AL1]

I have not used pressvest at all. Microstar is what I use for everything, emax, asthetic,empress 2, ceramic metal and for gold crowns.
My ratio for emax is 18 liquid an 7 water.
I dont get much reaction layer.
I did read where Talladium just came out with galaxy 2 which they say causes no reaction layer. I used to use galaxy investment but it wasnt consistent for me.

 

[wwcanoer]

I have very little experience with Emax so far, use Microstar HS investment, and feel like I'm getting a heavy reaction layer.

I have gone back and reread some old posts regarding burnout heat\time and think that I may be not letting my 100 g rings heat soak long enough, currently 35 minutes.

So two questions: could insufficient heat soak time lead to an increased reaction layer?

Does the liquid water ratio have a role in the reaction layer?

For my Authentic all ceramic pressings, I have been using 15 liquid, 10 water ratio. So that is the ratio I have tried on my Emax pressings.


Thanks, Carol

 

[TheLabGuy]

I can't speak for your Microstar investment, but I can tell you the heat soak time and more importantly the high temperature of your soak can adversely affect your reaction layers. From my experience, you would need to lower your high temp about 10F. I've noticed there is a fine line between not pressing and having too much reaction layer. The area in between is what you want to shoot for. I'd keep lowering my oven in 10F increments every time you pressed so you don't waste any ingots until you reach the desired reaction layer (which should be very minimal).

 

[charles007]

Carol, I pressed my first case with Microstar HS yesterday, after running out of Ivoclar Speed press. HS directions say 35 minutes heat soak , with my pfms with HS, I usually heat soak 45 to 60 minutes, one ring.......On these 2 emax cases I pressed using 60, and a 80 minute on my second case, burnout set at 1570.... Pressing furnace being used for the delay of pressing on the second case which came out much better.....Soak time had no effect and actually smoother.

1st. emax case, I used a debubblizer,blew off dry...got the usual reaction layer.
2nd emax case, no debubblizer, just my new Yeti die lub which helps. Received much less reaction layer than I normally receive.........
Not sure if I like the HS better or not......but it does save 15 minutes on setting time of the investment.
Microstar HS ratio: I used 17ml special liquid. 8 H2O with 100gram.....(Live in NC) Directions say to use the same for pressables as your Noble alloy.

 

[PGguy]

Just wanted to thank the tech that suggested using YETI Lube. I now getting the smoothest, bubble free emax pressing I've ever seen with it, and using Ivoclar Press Vest Speed ......... I had been using Degudent Isolit lube which is a great die lube.......
Has anyone ever diluted Yeti Lube with water and used as a debubblizer on the outside of the pattern ?
Yes, I know you aren't suppose to use a debubblizer ....... and I don't.

Charles

What's your ratio?

 

[Al.]

Carol, I pressed my first case with Microstar HS yesterday, after running out of Ivoclar Speed press.

Oh that is funny Charles !!!!

I have 12 rings of emax to invest and only 5 bags of investment.

Id be in deep doo doo if it wasnt for next day air.

I invested 5 small rings and have them in the oven and am waiting for my box of investment to get here buy 4:30..... I hope.

 

[JeffT]

(Now thats what i call faith in your supplier Al)

jeff

 

[charles007]

Al, I had a whole case of the S L O W Press Vest. Never used it, but had a little more courage to try the HS for the first time. Time wasn't on my side since I'm about a halfday behind schedule.
Burning out 3 anteriors now with the HS......

PGguy,
Microstar HS (emax ) 17 spec.liq. 8 water. 100 gram packs

 

[JeffT]

Hi all, Following rods advice I lowered my furnace temp 50.C to burn out my emax at 850 and my reaction layer was definitely less. However my margins still are not perfect. Today I wiped the inside of crown with tissue to remove residual sep and the margins were much better (no debubbleizer used).I am using Picosep (renfert) and am thinking this is reacting with press vest speed. Anyone on forum using same for emax? I think I will try the yeti lube as suggested and see how that goes.

Thanks for all the tips guys.
jeff

 

[Toast]

I've been using Yeti die lube since Ron Ables told me years ago never to use anything else. He was a great teacher and most of my techniques I use for emax and dsign can be directly contributed to him. I've also been using GC Multi Press Vest for emax and have had very good results. Minimal reaction layer that is easily removed after 15 min. in invex liquid. I use the ratios that GC recommends, crowns are just a little loose so I don't bother with spacer. I'm using the P500 to press and according to the emax manual I should be using program #'s between 11 and 20 (or somewhere in that range) but when I did I got huge reaction layers. I use the exact same parameters on program # 33 and they come out perfectly, go figure.

 

[wwcanoer]

Emax up date: so I dropped my burnout temperature as recommended earlier, and extended holding time in the oven to 50 minutes once back up to temperature. I'm still getting a very heavy reaction later! Ugh!

So after reading the post by Toast, a question for you. Before you switched to program 33, and I too have a EP 500 -- I'm pressing with program 19, is this what your reaction later looked like?

Thanks,

Carol

 

[wwcanoer]

Sorry folks, I posted the wrong picture. My most current Emax pressing does look like this minus the fins...... pretty depressing, isn't it.......

 

[sixonice]

Sorry folks, I posted the wrong picture. My most current Emax pressing does look like this minus the fins...... pretty depressing, isn't it.......

OK.....if your getting that heavy of a reaction layer, something is obviously going wrong. When was the last time you calibrated your EP500 with Silver? That would be something to look at. Also, in your program, make sure you have nothing in the "N" (re-press time). That should be blank. temp should be 1565F. High temp in your EP500 press for a small ring is 925C with a 15 minute hold, a large ring is 930C with a 25 minute hold.
Reaction layer is a result of heat......period. Excess heat causes excess reaction layer.

 

[Toast]

So after reading the post by Toast, a question for you. Before you switched to program 33, and I too have a EP 500 -- I'm pressing with program 19, is this what your reaction later looked like?



Carol

Yep, looked just like that. I cannot explain it nor could my ivoclar rep. I calibrate the oven regularly with the ivoclar silver rods and its always spot on. When I first started pressing emax I made my press program #33 (200g ring),and later saw in the manual to use #'s 11-20. I figured there must be some reason so I entered the same parameters into a prog. number in that range (can't remember the exact one) and got multiple presses that looked similar to yours. Went back to #33 with no other changes and back to minimal or no reaction layer. I know it sounds silly but its true. I can't say if simply switching prog #'s will fix your problems but using the recommended prog. #'s is the only time I've had serious reaction layers.

 

[wwcanoer]

My pressing oven is an EP 500, I've had it for 10+ years? With the original muffle in it. A month ago, the Ivoclar REP finally make it behind The Redwood Curtain, and after reviewing my poor excuses of Emax pressings, recommended replacing the muffle. He was very sweet and did it for me, then I calibrated at that afternoon. That checked out fine. Also check the calibration of my burnout ovens, and that seems fine too.

Since then, I've been rereading the Emax posts on this forum, and have decided that high temperatures are my biggest problem. So I will continue playing with my high temperature setting, I'm also going to try out program number 33., and check to see if there's a value in the "N" slot or not.

Eventually I will get this solved

 

[Toast]

wwcanoer, I don't think there is anything special about prog. #33, its just the number I chose and happened to be outside of the 11-20 range. There must be something special about prog. #'s 11-20 though if ivoclar says to use that range for emax, but I don't know what it is. I'm pressing 200g rings at 910C with 15 min. hold and getting a light reaction layer and super sharp margins, yes its been calibrated recently. I've always looked at ivoclar's parameters as a starting point, all ovens are different. I have to fire dsign 10*C higher the they recommend in my P80 oven.
Keep lowering your temps like sixonice suggested and try a program # out side of 11-20 with the same parameters and see if you have the same results I did. Good luck.

 

[Toast]

Also, I don't have any setting for "N" in my press program.