SLM Frameworks

[charles007]

Plan to start using SLM frames and an alternative to casting and wanted to ask opinions be it good or bad. I like the idea of being able to offer in NP, N, and HN without have to stock different alloys, and being able to offer flat pricing. Haven't checked with Argen to see if HN SLM is offered in fixed pricing, I'm guessing not.
The only thing I have heard about SLM several times is fits are great, and better than the printed and cast option off files.
OK, please share your experiences with this new way of making pfms.

 

[Drizzt]

Plan to start using SLM frames and an alternative to casting and wanted to ask opinions be it good or bad. I like the idea of being able to offer in NP, N, and HN without have to stock different alloys, and being able to offer flat pricing. Haven't checked with Argen to see if HN SLM is offered in fixed pricing, I'm guessing not.
The only thing I have heard about SLM several times is fits are great, and better than the printed and cast option off files.
OK, please share your experiences with this new way of making pfms.

Been doing it for more than 3 years . Never had any kind of problems .

I make oxidation , sandblast , apply bonder , bake , then opaque and porcelain .

 

[PDC]

I didn't really like the surface quality of the SLM HN alloy. Things may have improved since I tried them but the surface texture seemed very porous and rough. I am going to try the milled wax and induction casting workflow with my next case. I've tried Argen's milled wax and the fits were great, so I thought I would carry it a step further. I really like the idea of eliminating rings, investment, furnace time, cutting sprues, weighing copings, bubbles in castings, etc. Supposedly, the metal charges are the same as what you would pay if you bought an oz. or whatever from them direct.

I'm just starting to use this workflow and hope it works out. I think it will be pretty cost effective when you figure in all of the variables associated with doing a casting the old fashioned way.



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[user name]

I didn't really like the surface quality of the SLM HN alloy. Things may have improved since I tried them but the surface texture seemed very porous and rough. I am going to try the milled wax and induction casting workflow with my next case. I've tried Argen's milled wax and the fits were great, so I thought I would carry it a step further. I really like the idea of eliminating rings, investment, furnace time, cutting sprues, weighing copings, bubbles in castings, etc. Supposedly, the metal charges are the same as what you would pay if you bought an oz. or whatever from them direct.

I'm just starting to use this workflow and hope it works out. I think it will be pretty cost effective when you figure in all of the variables associated with doing a casting the old fashioned way.



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I agree on the surface issues. Rather than SLM, Id try Argen DPM.

 

[doug]

We've been using Bego for NP frames as I hate it. They have done a very nice job, I have tweaked my margins some and really only finish the margins the go straight to my porcelain procedure.

 

[rkm rdt]

It's harder to polish a slm metal band so go for full porcelain coverage.

Otherwise use dpm for a better surface to polish.

 

[charles007]

How would you compare Argens/Bego's DPM to SLM using NP/Noble. I'm using DPM with both Argen and Bego and having good results but I prefer Argen since they offer a large selections of alloys. Anyone offering both DPM and SLM ? if so, what comments are you hearing from your accounts if any ?
I would guess the only reason for offering both SLM and DPM is having the option of fixed pricing and being able to offer your favorite alloy using DPM.
Any less metal finishing required with SLM/ DPM ?
Surface texture on SLM, I would think rough and porous might be an advantage with bond ? I understand the disadvantage in polishing.
Sorry for all the question ! I will learn all the answers by the end of this week........

 

[Prosthodontics]

Interesting that this is already on the market in the US. I have at my disposal a SLM machine at the University. We are investigating ways to commercial selective metal sintering. I agree the finish of SLM is not as good as milling but I suspect the added roughness is probably good of added retention of porcelain especially in NP cases where oxide formation can be an issue?

In the last few years, some good studies have emerged on SLM printed frameworks in terms of physical strength and fit and as alluded by other posters, they are definitely better fitted and also with more uniform grain formation -> increased tensile and flexural strength than traditional casting technique.

I will be interested to see how Bego or Argen offers printed HN or N metals. I imagine they may have a few of these printers available for each alloy as cleaning the conduits of the machine from 1 material to another takes 1 whole day.

Tonight we are printing an full-arch implant frame and some STL of natural teeth as a trial. Fingers crossed.

 

[Principefly]

Someone has read research or study on the bonding of ceramic with these SLM? Link ??

 

[Gru]

Is this useful?
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0300571212000437

I haven't read the whole article, only the abstract as I don't have access.

 

[Prosthodontics]

I have attached an article from 2008. I am not aware if there are more recent articles. This is one of the research areas that I am interested in with our SLM machine. I am busy trying to setup the DMG-20 mill for dental applications atm.
The shear bond strength numbers they have quoted sound awfully high. I have a feeling that there experimental setup with the Instatron does not follow the ISO standard. They seemed to gloss cover that aspect of the experimental setup. I have a feeling that the test method is not the gold-standard and there is a stringent approach. I have not read the Bondioli & Bottino (2004) experimental setup yet. Break to failure shear testing and (3-point bending for that matter) is easily to do but clinically may not mean much. Cyclic loading may be more clinically relevant.

The main thing though is that it is probably no worse than bond strength compared to casting. Having said that 50% of the failures were adhesive failures rather than mixed failures.

I have attached the article that Gru mentioned. Haven't read it yet. Also found the 2014 paper by the same group which I have attached. I have to say that the issue of improved mechanical strength of alloy resonates in most literature due to a more uniform orientation of microstructure. Also note the large difference between 55MPa (+/-) in this study vs 81MPa (+/-) in the 2008 study.

There is actually a lot of studies that look at different aspects of a variety of SLM printed material over last 5 years in Journal of Dental Materials that have not filtered through to Pros journals yet. Happy to discuss.

 

[ICONDENTAL]

Been doing it for more than 3 years . Never had any kind of problems .

I make oxidation , sandblast , apply bonder , bake , then opaque and porcelain .

Hi, Where do you send your framework to be done?

 

[The Metal guy]

I agree on the surface issues. Rather than SLM, Id try Argen DPM.

I tried Argen's and at the beginning they were real good, bur after a few crown all went crazy. short margin , the fit is terrible,
they ara trying to fix it with re doing the work, but the follow frame still don't fit. and we end up loosing the acc

I agree on the surface issues. Rather than SLM, Id try Argen DPM.

I tried Argen's and at the beginning they were real good, but suddenly after a few crowns all went crazy. It looks like someone else is doing all the work and don't care, short margin, the fit is terrible, shade for the Zirconia so off, they are trying to fix it with redoing the work, but the follow frame still doesn't fit. And we end up loosing the accounts. And when I speak with some girl, all she says is " sorry" but my account still gone.!!!
Just a thought. Looking at this from this standpoint. I wish I had never sent nothing to them.

 

[Drizzt]

Hi, Where do you send your framework to be done?

Hey there , I am located in Greece and I am sending them to a Laser Sintering center in Athens . They are using 3 Phenix machines .

 

[CoolHandLuke]

Plan to start using SLM frames and an alternative to casting and wanted to ask opinions be it good or bad. I like the idea of being able to offer in NP, N, and HN without have to stock different alloys, and being able to offer flat pricing. Haven't checked with Argen to see if HN SLM is offered in fixed pricing, I'm guessing not.
The only thing I have heard about SLM several times is fits are great, and better than the printed and cast option off files.
OK, please share your experiences with this new way of making pfms.

whats wrong with print+cast ?

 

[charles007]

whats wrong with print+cast ?

Nothing wrong with print and cast. I've used DPM on most of my pfm cases for the past several months, just wanted to offer another choice off my menu with SLM, which equals a cheaper alternative framework without changing quality and fit.

To those who haven't tried using DPM, I really like using it from Argen & Bego on my pfm bridges and singles. Designing in Cad makes it easy to see details you may over look in hand waxing which equals less metal finishing. Metal finishing DPM is basically thinning margins and correcting any errors if needed in your design. Also using DPM on my gold crowns which allows me to offer both Noble & HN and not stock both types of high priced gold alloys.
I started this thread to learn more about SLM since I didn't know anyone using SLM and wanted to learn more from DLN users I could trust. lol
Now hearing SLM seems to fit better than DPM if you don't mind the roughness which I think would be a plus. As far as polishing, that's another story.
Still haven't tried SLM because most of my pfm bridges this month had full metal on the last abutment.

CoolHand, I think I've designed about 5 bridges in DPM using Argelite 61 which is the same alloy I've cast for the past 20+ years and aprox 12 DPM full gold crowns....... Sweet

 

[TheLabGuy]

The SLM frameworks are hard like base metal/non-precious. What I mean is even if you get noble or high noble SLM they grind just like base metal. I would of went to SLM's awhile ago but I know my Docs would get a Identalloy sticker saying its noble or high noble and once they made any adjustment on the intaglio surface they would be like 'W'hiskey 'T'ango 'F'oxtrot and think they were base metal and I'm selling them as noble/high noble.

 

[charles007]

Thanks Rob, certainly don't want to be accused of using NP after todays tel call...... GREAT INFO..
Received a call today asking if Argelite 61 is really really really Noble since it doesn't have any gold or Pt. in it

 

[TheLabGuy]

Thanks Rob, certainly don't to be accused of using NP after todays tel call...... GREAT INFO..
Received a call today asking if Argelite 61 is really really really Noble since it doesn't have any gold or Pt. in it

Did you provide them with a 'Identalloy' sticker? Regardless, its crazy how many times I get phone calls on what is really base metal, noble, or high noble. Then you throw in non-precious, semi-precious, and precious I guess I can see how they get confused...lol

 

[charles007]

Yes, Identalloy stickers provided. Reading the Argen alloy chart today it shows Noble metal content , (Au, + Pt, + Pd ) 25%
It would be easy for a doctor to think Noble alloys must have Au in it since its not crystal clear.. lol
I ordered more alloy charts to hand out after that call...... lol