Sleep apnea and snoring let's talk about it!

Beatrice

Beatrice

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HI all,

I have been involved in this topic since last year and learned A LOTS of information about this topic and I would like to start a discussion about it.

I want to share info and learn from you guys also about this topic.

I have read couple of other topics within this forum and seem that there a lots of people that want more info about this topic and it also seem that we have some members here that are into that for decades!
But there no real topic that share all the info together!

Well just as a start to let you know snoring should not be considered as a simple social problem, it can lead to sleep apnea very fast and some recent study have shown that a simple snorer (have done a sleep test and was NOT diagnose with sleep apnea) can still have daytime sleepiness and have a higher risk of diabetes plus a lots of other risk (higher risk of car accident, etc.)

A funny and interesting study I found also about why patient consult their doctor related to snoring:

24% consult because snoring create couple problems
20% " " " " create family problems
17% are anxious to travel within a group
12% are anxious related to health
10% are anxious to be in hospital
8% are anxious to disturb co-worker

And last but least for today, a recent north american poll show that 51% of divorced couple say that snoring was one of the reason why.


SO guys, let's share, ask question !!
We can talk about the problem but more important solutions !!! Other than CPAP heh!

I have a sh%@ load of info about all different appliance in the market

Here a small list out of my head of what exist in the market.

-Herbst
-Somnodent/Dorsal/Nor-Snor
-EMA
-Tap
-Silencer
-Klearway
-SUAD
-TRD (Tongue retainer Device)
-Resmed Narval CC (That my old company one also in partner with french lab Narval)
-Panthera Anti-snoring device (okay that mine ! :p but I can be very objective here!)

SO let's discuss and learn!!
(Oh and if you want to have a idea why you should be interested well the North American market associated to sleep apnea / snorning is estimated at more than 200 billions of US $)
 
JohnWilson

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Here is the problem with APNEA appliances or any class two devices Bernard. Here in the states you have to be registered with FDA to resell or fab these.

Next problem is the vast majority of GP's that are requesting snoring devices are for patients that have never had a sleep study done to diagnose if they have APNEA. They have read that their dentist can make them a "snoreguard" and ask them to make one. Anyone familiar with this disease understands that this is a a bad path.

So now you have to weigh the risks, would you want to be involved with making an appliance that is for a patient that may have this disorder that is undiagnosed and then potentially die with your appliance in the mouth. Can you imagine the litigation? There is a reason why most product liability insurances exclude this appliance and necessitate a rider.

As cool as your newest invention is I for one just do not see my upside in my business to make the rewards outweigh the risks
 
Beatrice

Beatrice

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About the FDA, I am currently looking into all the details so for that I will wait before making comment on this side, but I do see the concern.
Now concerning the snoring and sleep apnea, in fact you are wrong, a patient that want to treat himself for snoring without a diagnostic of sleep apnea is better than a patient that just ignore it.
Having an official or non-official diagnose will not change the fact that this kind of device (Mandibular advancement device) will help the patient. They cannot "Create problem" or "interfere" with the health, it not like taking a pill.

The problem stay in the fact that for Severe sleep apnea patient, it is still recommended to use a CPAP over a dental device BUT (important here) 30% of patient don't even want to hear the word CPAP and 20% will stop wearing it within 6 month, the other 50% don't even wear it 7 days a week. A recent study done here in university of Montreal and in France have shown that a dental appliance is AS GOOD as a CPAP if you take those statistic in comparison since now the market offer few model that have a very HIGH compliance rate (ie: our have over 85% of our patient wear it 7 days a week all night long)

I love to make a comparison of how the laws are dumb and stupid, even i do recognized them, here in Canada a patient MUST have a prescription of a diagnostic of SLEEP apnea or simple snorer to order such a device with a dentist.

But that is somewhat stupid, if someone don't care and just want to solve his snoring problem why he need to meet a doctor?
It like an obese person, he probably have many health problem un-diagnosed but if he go and meet a physical trainer at the local gym, he wont get the answer : You need to see a doctor before i can help you loose weight! WHY because there NO bad effect of loosing weight! anyway the patient will probably say : I don't care if I have diabetes or whatever, just want to loose weight!

Same with taking care of your snoring, the only possible side effect are ALL related to dental field !! That perfect since it a dentist that sell such device (tooth movement, TMJ pain, etc)
THERE NOT a single side effect of such device on sleep apnea/snoring.
IT MIGHT not be the best for a specific patient, but heh better that, than doing nothing!

Now back to FDA...need to do my lessons!
 
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bangnv

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Did you hear about Silensor-sl from Erodent? Is that effect or not? I searched in the internet and saw that it's so simple to make this appliance but not sure about it's effective.
 
Bumfrey

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I self diagnosed myself with mild apnea. Wife told me about it. I do not snore just stop breathing occasionally.
At times i wake suddenly in panic. I hate it.
I am not overweight, but when i do get a bit larger it gets worse so i lose a few kilos and it gets better.
I made the Silensor-sl and its GREAT didn't take long and very straight forward. You have to wax out between teeth, as i didn't the first time and its that tight and rigid it made me wake with ALL my teeth hurting. They have a range of rigid bands so you can adjust by swapping them out, and this gives your jaw movement which is nice to have.
Problem is that the plastic is not strong enough. In 4 months i broke 2 bands and now i snapped the pin which needs fixing before i can use it again. Thinking of getting all 4 pins milled in titanium somehow. Cocr does not like my skin.
Open to questioning.
O and i do have a VERY strong bite.
 

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zero_zero

zero_zero

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This is what we make...works well, good longevity and high profit margin :)
6aravebu.jpg

egyrumym.jpg
 
disturbed

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pulling the jaw forward and grinding or clenching your teeth(like a lot do at night)
can cause TMD issues over time, can it not?....
 
Smithwick0208

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I have always been curious if these devices can adjust the patients bite over time. Kind of like when I had braces as a kid and had to wear rubber bands. Can that happen? Or is the small amount of time worn not really enough to adjust the bite?
 
B

bangnv

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I self diagnosed myself with mild apnea. Wife told me about it. I do not snore just stop breathing occasionally.
At times i wake suddenly in panic. I hate it.
I am not overweight, but when i do get a bit larger it gets worse so i lose a few kilos and it gets better.
I made the Silensor-sl and its GREAT didn't take long and very straight forward. You have to wax out between teeth, as i didn't the first time and its that tight and rigid it made me wake with ALL my teeth hurting. They have a range of rigid bands so you can adjust by swapping them out, and this gives your jaw movement which is nice to have.
Problem is that the plastic is not strong enough. In 4 months i broke 2 bands and now i snapped the pin which needs fixing before i can use it again. Thinking of getting all 4 pins milled in titanium somehow. Cocr does not like my skin.
Open to questioning.
O and i do have a VERY strong bite.
It looks good. But can you explain more deeply: How to wax out between teeth? I don't understand that. Thanks
 
Bumfrey

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Just to give a little space so the appliance is not too tight around the teeth. I also removed the labial anterior section of the upper and lower. Was more comfortable. Mainly cos my teeth protrude a little. Heavy class two.
Each morning when i wake up and take it out my bite does feel slightly opened. After 10 mins it feels fine.
This thread made me fix it today. Thanks bernigts.
One day i may try to improve the strength somehow, as even though it works and is comfortable the durability only get a 6/10.
 
Bumfrey

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It may well move the teeth or cause TMJ problems over time, but i am willing to risk that. Not breathing when you are asleep causes way more harmful results.
I am also thinking of getting my tonsils out as on one side of my throat it intrudes quite a lot.
 
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bangnv

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I also get information from Sleep Well company in UK. They introduce Snoremender in mass production. But I'm not sure about their effective with snore and sleep apnea. Is there anyone have tried it before? Can you tell what about it's effective? Their website here: http://www.snoremenders.com/
 
Beatrice

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I also get information from Sleep Well company in UK. They introduce Snoremender in mass production. But I'm not sure about their effective with snore and sleep apnea. Is there anyone have tried it before? Can you tell what about it's effective? Their website here: http://www.snoremenders.com/
LOL

Seriously every **** like that should be banned! THat why I hate FDA and Health Canada. You can buy those **** in North America, THey cause major problem and don't work!
 
Tom Moore

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as someone with diagnosed central sleep apnea the use of a dental appliance designed for obstructive sleep apnea is down right dangerous. This can be a life threatening medical condition. Its treatment should not be sold over the counter or even prescribed by a dentist without a sleep study and someone with the knowledge to read the information gathered with it. It also should not be manufactured by anyone in the USA that is not FDA registered and meets their criteria for manufacturing a sleep apnea device. Whats next dentist putting staples in your ear so you will quit smoking?
 
Beatrice

Beatrice

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Tom by the way this os already how it work.

A dentist need to work under a prescription from a physician that conclude a sleep test.

What is not ok is the product over the counter.
Your situation is in fact rare.

The American Academy of Sleep Medicine says that for snoring. mild and noderate apnea an oral appliance is the first intention and for severe a cpap or a oral appliance is refusal of cpap by the patien (around 50% of the cases.) And this obviously for obstructive sleep apnea.
 
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EdgarApplegate

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Sleep apnea is known as sleeping disorder, which happens when an individual's breathing is interrupted during sleep. Sleep apnea patient generally stop breathing frequently during their sleep, sometimes it is hundreds of times which cause lack of oxygen to the brain and the rest of the body. It might cause health problems like high blood pressure, stroke, heart failure, diabetes, depression and headaches. It can be treated with some lifestyle changes, use of mouthpieces, breathing devices and surgery as well. CPAP (continuous positive airway pressure) a machine provided by medical device manufacturers is the most effective treatment which generally has mask that fits over your mouth and nose, gently blows air into your throat which helps keeping your airway open during a sleep.
 
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AL1

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Have a friend out here in Seattle, does night guards but wants to learn how to make sleep apnia devices.
Anyone know of training courses out here in the west?
 
Beatrice

Beatrice

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AL1 time is not to learn how anymore we produce them cad-cam here with 3D printer ;)
 
kostisg

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Try ercodent silensor sl is nice system and cheap
 

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