Sirona MC X5

JohnWilson

JohnWilson

Well-Known Member
Full Member
Messages
5,487
Reaction score
1,575
Talked to Glidewell and CAP today. Both have quit selling vhf due to reliability problems. Just reporting.......

And you believe this why?

I have 3 mills all made by VHF the first 4x mill milled more that 40k parts of some sort. The other 2 5x mills have be run on average than 16 hours a day, 5 days a week, for close to 2 years now. They are solid awesome machines.
 
G

grantoz

Well-Known Member
Full Member
Messages
2,000
Reaction score
366
JW stop asking the hard questions you crazy moderator you
 
Sevan P

Sevan P

Well-Known Member
Full Member
Messages
3,418
Reaction score
641
Talked to Glidewell and CAP today. Both have quit selling vhf due to reliability problems. Just reporting.......
Ok well glidewell only sold the 4axis mill. Never the 5axis so they are not a good source to call. And CAP never ever sold vhf, schein did and still does. Reason glidewell stopped is most likely due to the fact the the old 4axis vhf has a electric touch off plate and not a mechanical one like the s1/s2 and k5 and the mills were crashing left and right and caused a headache for them. But the brand new 4axis vhf has the mechanical touch off so it is bullet proof.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
 
Jake Dobbins

Jake Dobbins

Member
Full Member
Messages
77
Reaction score
11
Ok...Ok....I'm just telling you what they told me. I believe Ya!
 
biodentg

biodentg

Active Member
Full Member
Messages
405
Reaction score
33
Get a Roland, good mill for the price.
But the old model, I've been reading some complaints with the new one.
 
brayks

brayks

Well-Known Member
Sponsors
Full Member
Messages
804
Reaction score
277
Get a Roland, good mill for the price.
But the old model, I've been reading some complaints with the new one.

What about the Versamill 5XS?

OK, now I just HAVE to say something...

Exactly!

I know I may be just a little bit prejudice, however the Roland, in any of its versions isn't half the machine the 5XS is - for just about the same price!

Regarding the previous version. This is an ad campaign I ran comparing the DWX-50 Check it out (and in my opinion the latest machine isn't all that much better). Pricing has changed a bit however the comparison and conclusion is still valid.




If anyone would like more details, please give me a shout.
 
Last edited:
G

grantoz

Well-Known Member
Full Member
Messages
2,000
Reaction score
366
you could try one of the zirkonzahn mills but you will need to employ a tech to run it because its a bit to complicated for a dentist to use .they can mill much more complicated shapes and offer far to much freedom to an inexperienced operator .
 
Sevan P

Sevan P

Well-Known Member
Full Member
Messages
3,418
Reaction score
641
What about the Versamill 5XS?
That is a lot of mill, unless your cutting your own bars, probably not, maybe looks into 5xS, smaller and we'll built. I have seen the Aurum mills in person and they look the same as Axis. Axis might of changed some stuff but they looks the same.

If your main concern is wet milling your spindle need to be built for it. The 5x200 has a 3kw 60,000 rpm spindle built for wet milling, titanium and crco. The 5xS has a 500 watt 60,000 rpm spindle.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
 
J

Jed Archibald

Member
Messages
4
Reaction score
0
Wow,
First I want to say that I was directed to this site by a few people and I was trolling the mill forms and came across this fun-fest right off the bat.I would like to direct this to Jake Dobbins and what techs may catch it. Though I may not have much street cred within the site, I feel I might be better qualified to mediate doctor to tech interactions here. I am unique because we get to work in-house with our doctor, we co-caseplan most cases, and take custom shades on all. And we get to play cleanup when things go wrong.

I think both sides here are right. But I would like to help with perspective before we create more enemies out there.
Sometimes when techs don't step into the clinical office often enough, we tend to get caught up in our work as artists. Which is good, our job is part science, part art.
But we forget that we need the dentist "legally", he does not need us "legally". Though I do not claim this is always right, it is the legal facts of the USA, and we need to remember that. In the US the dentist acts as general and he subs out the work to everyone else. And he has the right to go ahead and do his own sub work if he wants. Weather its the right call or not actually varies and there is lots of debate constantly on which is right. But you "the tech" need to remember that you cannot go hang a sign and start prepping teeth no matter how good we are as techs, "legally".
You also need to know that your doctor needs patients, and he generally has way more debt than you. Right now the average dental student graduates with 375K school debt. Not to mention startup debt runs 200-500k, and family mortgage and an industry thats getting more and more popular so there is lots of competition. So anything we can do to help dentists stay in business is more important than our talents as an artist/tech. Just the facts.

Guys like Jake are some of the good ones. They went to school when they taught technology (they don't now). He has to wade the sea of crap that gets thrown at him by salesman and flyers, probably daily. The best way for any dentist to navigate what is the right call on material and processes will always be the technician. So hang in there Jake, I would like to help you out. I believe to have a growing practice, you DO need to offer some type of same day crown to be competitive. It does not mean you need to Only offer that, but todays millennials won't walk in your door without some stupid internet hook. Although the crowns "by my standards" are not good. They are competitive when compared to crappy labs, and slightly more reliable. The trick is to know when to use chair-side CAM and when its better to outsource. Many lab guys are sore because the good old days of getting every single tooth from a dentist are gone. When I see it work is when a dentist offers his patients options, and lets them choose which way to go. Although that takes personality, you seem like you can handle that. Some guys choose when to use CAD by quality, and some by time. When your schedule is full, you are worth 4X as much as me when I am busy. So in the case of our doctor, its more economical to have us do as much as possible. I would look at 3 things when looking at chair-side CAD. 1) speed, time is not only money, its a big deal to the patient. If you get a sweet 5 axis mill, it might equate to a 2-3 hr chair-side e.max case. 2) support, talk to other dentists who use the CAD. Word of mouth is the only reliable way there. 3) open source, though closed source systems may simplify things a little. You need the option to send your files to anyone anywhere. You don't want to be fenced into a single restorative protocol.

Before anyone gets upset, here are the real bad guys screwing things up. Insurance and Salesman. There is always an aception and so on........ But insurance is completely killing new dentists coming out of school. And making them feel like they need to cut every corner just to stay open 3 days a week. If patients new what quality insurance offered them, they wouldn't have dental insurance, its a joke. Now salesman, we have many great guys we work with and so on....... But more and more are going for an "80 grand and adios" sale. They are pressuring labs to buy equipment telling us we are going extinct, and telling dentists the same day to buy the same equipment and eliminate the lab. These guys are scum - out of all the mills purchased for chair-side CAD, only about 25% are being used. The rest are collecting dust, so be careful Jake. And most of us labs can't afford to make a bad purchase that size, so we partner up or get hired by a large operation (accounts for some of that 50% decline in labs). In short, we need to have more open dialogue between lab and dentist, because thats the only way to figure out what is best for the patient. We are the only two who can correctly evaluate what is right for them and the practice. Even though the legal end falls on the doc, there is no way he has the time to keep up with all the new materials and processes.
 
JMN

JMN

Christian Member
Full Member
Messages
12,205
Reaction score
1,884
Wow,
First I want to say that I was directed to this site by a few people and I was trolling the mill forms and came across this fun-fest right off the bat.I would like to direct this to Jake Dobbins and what techs may catch it. Though I may not have much street cred within the site, I feel I might be better qualified to mediate doctor to tech interactions here. I am unique because we get to work in-house with our doctor, we co-caseplan most cases, and take custom shades on all. And we get to play cleanup when things go wrong.

I think both sides here are right. But I would like to help with perspective before we create more enemies out there.
Sometimes when techs don't step into the clinical office often enough, we tend to get caught up in our work as artists. Which is good, our job is part science, part art.
But we forget that we need the dentist "legally", he does not need us "legally". Though I do not claim this is always right, it is the legal facts of the USA, and we need to remember that. In the US the dentist acts as general and he subs out the work to everyone else. And he has the right to go ahead and do his own sub work if he wants. Weather its the right call or not actually varies and there is lots of debate constantly on which is right. But you "the tech" need to remember that you cannot go hang a sign and start prepping teeth no matter how good we are as techs, "legally".
You also need to know that your doctor needs patients, and he generally has way more debt than you. Right now the average dental student graduates with 375K school debt. Not to mention startup debt runs 200-500k, and family mortgage and an industry thats getting more and more popular so there is lots of competition. So anything we can do to help dentists stay in business is more important than our talents as an artist/tech. Just the facts.

Guys like Jake are some of the good ones. They went to school when they taught technology (they don't now). He has to wade the sea of crap that gets thrown at him by salesman and flyers, probably daily. The best way for any dentist to navigate what is the right call on material and processes will always be the technician. So hang in there Jake, I would like to help you out. I believe to have a growing practice, you DO need to offer some type of same day crown to be competitive. It does not mean you need to Only offer that, but todays millennials won't walk in your door without some stupid internet hook. Although the crowns "by my standards" are not good. They are competitive when compared to crappy labs, and slightly more reliable. The trick is to know when to use chair-side CAM and when its better to outsource. Many lab guys are sore because the good old days of getting every single tooth from a dentist are gone. When I see it work is when a dentist offers his patients options, and lets them choose which way to go. Although that takes personality, you seem like you can handle that. Some guys choose when to use CAD by quality, and some by time. When your schedule is full, you are worth 4X as much as me when I am busy. So in the case of our doctor, its more economical to have us do as much as possible. I would look at 3 things when looking at chair-side CAD. 1) speed, time is not only money, its a big deal to the patient. If you get a sweet 5 axis mill, it might equate to a 2-3 hr chair-side e.max case. 2) support, talk to other dentists who use the CAD. Word of mouth is the only reliable way there. 3) open source, though closed source systems may simplify things a little. You need the option to send your files to anyone anywhere. You don't want to be fenced into a single restorative protocol.

Before anyone gets upset, here are the real bad guys screwing things up. Insurance and Salesman. There is always an aception and so on........ But insurance is completely killing new dentists coming out of school. And making them feel like they need to cut every corner just to stay open 3 days a week. If patients new what quality insurance offered them, they wouldn't have dental insurance, its a joke. Now salesman, we have many great guys we work with and so on....... But more and more are going for an "80 grand and adios" sale. They are pressuring labs to buy equipment telling us we are going extinct, and telling dentists the same day to buy the same equipment and eliminate the lab. These guys are scum - out of all the mills purchased for chair-side CAD, only about 25% are being used. The rest are collecting dust, so be careful Jake. And most of us labs can't afford to make a bad purchase that size, so we partner up or get hired by a large operation (accounts for some of that 50% decline in labs). In short, we need to have more open dialogue between lab and dentist, because thats the only way to figure out what is best for the patient. We are the only two who can correctly evaluate what is right for them and the practice. Even though the legal end falls on the doc, there is no way he has the time to keep up with all the new materials and processes.
Greetings Earthling! Welcome to the asylum.
 
J

Jed Archibald

Member
Messages
4
Reaction score
0
Greetings Earthling! Welcome to the asylum.
Thanks. I got one foot out the door for now. But I think with all the fake info from companies, we gotta communicate somehow.
 
Jake Dobbins

Jake Dobbins

Member
Full Member
Messages
77
Reaction score
11
Hey Jed!

Appreciate your input! And Welcome to the fun-fest!
Actually, we're all on the same team. Pretty nice guys/gals here.
 
L

Lindsay Patterson

Member
Full Member
Messages
35
Reaction score
16
Wow! Wow! Wow! .....Wow! I can usually come to this site for help and answers when they arise and I appreciate the people who have reached out and actually helped. Instead of using this site as a way to publically display your insecurities and inability to succeed or even to work with other humans. The equivalent of what I just read is like a black guy coming on a white supremacist group discussion. Easy to be the bad man on campus when it's you and all your friends against one guy.

Im so embarrassed right now for the uneducated opinions...OPINIONS....of the technicians that contributed to this feed. You people have completely lost sight of why we all got into this business in the first place. Helping people.

I dropped a full ride art scholarship to go to dental lab school. At the time business was incredibly succesful. The year I graduated was the year zirconia showed it's face. You can imagine my joy. But face it, this business made some technicians a ton of money for only having a two year degree. The guys I've worked for all had brand new trucks, wives that stayed home, huge homes, four wheelers, boats, vacations, employee benefits and raises...a pretty decent living. As soon as I graduated it went digital??? And suddenly my dream of having success as they did started fading. That year I graduated there were 14 dental labs to send resumes to...today there are 2 and the program I graduated from isn't a program anymore...most of them are closed today in fact. This skill and trade suddenly became a job overnight. So I began going back to my roots as an artist for extra money. I got hired to do a published children's book, which was always my dream. When I handed the final drawings in to the publishing company the lady said something that I'll never forget and that also changed my life..."oooo you hand drew these?" I thought to myself "as opposed to what"? I'm 34 years old and the technological world has been just as difficult for me to embrace as anyone older than me. But here's the lesson....the whole world has gone digital!!!!! Even art! There's no escaping it. You have to learn to roll with the times and embrace the change or your going to turn into a very alone and bitter technician who nobody wants to work with. All that doctor did was get on board the digital train. He is also smart enough to get on board a social media site of nothing but technicians and mostly a helping hand. He's smart to be the very few dentists we have on here and hopefully you guys didn't screw it up for the smart technicians who know without a doubt that we need him for our success. The smartest and most skilled technicians are either in-office or extremely close with their dentists. That doctor put in a ton more money and effort into his success than any of us did. It's so easy to be jealous of others but very few are willing to put in the same effort as they did for their success. That's like a nurse thinking she should get the same pay and respect as the doctor bc as we all know they do most the work. But is what it is...and we all know that going into it. I was going to go to be a dentist but I sat in on an implant case and the blood made me so nauseous that it didn't take long for me to realize this isn't for me.

I can't believe the ignorance of most the technicians that responded to this....your an embarrassment and give us all a bad name. You have to think outside the box to have success these days as a dental technician....the most obvious being an in-house technician working hand in hand with the dentist. And nowadays if you have a dental practice and don't offer same day crowns then your going to quickly fade while the younger guys come in and work circles around the old school mentality.
The way for dentists to compete and stand above the rest is to hire a skilled dental technician to work in-office. I feel so bad for that dentist and how you guys treated him. Wake up and educate yourselves...that doctor didnt invent this technology;)
 
Brett Hansen CDT

Brett Hansen CDT

Well-Known Member
Full Member
Messages
1,683
Reaction score
102
It took you 27 months to craft this response? Obviously you hand crafted it. Should have used digital and then it would have been timely.
 
rkm rdt

rkm rdt

Well-Known Member
Full Member
Messages
21,444
Reaction score
3,288
Think outside the box?
I just put wheels on my box instead.
 
PCDL

PCDL

Active Member
Full Member
Messages
411
Reaction score
46
That response sounds like someone justifying the X5 purchase they just made...

Where did this come from??
 
Top Bottom