Sintering in the Assylum

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Heres my Diary. Laugh at me. Learn from my mistakes. Give me advice.

I have a Dekema basic from Jensen; XT Zr is my main product. Done in their oven, with their parameters, and my coloring formulas, I think my product is as nice as Ive seen full contour. I have a new Mihmvogt Speed Im trying to program. Simply entering the parameters from the XT tech sheet didn't cut it. Everything appeared opaque, gross, unsellable. I played and got it where I thought t was looking decent, but I found a crown in A-2 that had been previously sintered in the Dekema. Next to a crown I just finished, my heart sank. The Dekema sintered crown was translucent, warm, looked beautiful. Youd honestly think it were a high trans product. I was sintering in the Mihm on a quartz speed tray, uncovered. I just received an alumina bowl and lid, so Im starting over. Rather than milling crowns, I took many pieces from used discs, roughly finished to similar size and shape. I did a quick coloring, and now will sinter a couple at a time, one by the edge of the bowl, one in the center. Ill repeat the sinter process, only changing the high temp.

The schedule will be 6 degrees/minute to 1000. 1 hour hold.
3 degrees/ minute to high temp (varies) and a 2 hour hold.

For those of you that are being successful, I must be a laugh. I know there are others though that are struggling too. Its a good oven and a good Zr. Im the weak link.

I will succeed.
 
CoolHandLuke

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we all have those problems.

for example today i couldn't figure out how to copy waxed up abutments into zirconia. just couldn't do it.
 
zero_zero

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For those of you that are being successful, I must be a laugh

A lot of us wont share the tedious work of trial-and-error and the associated frustration bringing something to fruition...we just like to brag with the end result...
 
Sevan P

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First of all I never put a lid on any sintering tray, for some reason a lid will block the heat and they look like crap. I fire everything on a open tray with a crown top for ventilation. Also the true temp of the ovens vary. My Naberterm is spot on but since I changes the motherboard on my vita 6000ms it just doesn't fire the same. The Struggle is Real! Just keep at you will get it, next firing fire without the lid.
 
Affinity

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Ill post pics of my pile of broken crowns that ive dropped while coloring and despruing, or fell out while milling... if it will make you feel better! I cant say ive ever had a problem with the way the crowns fire out.. the color after, helI yes! I fire at 1520.. or was it 1590?? but never ever with a lid on, seems like a good way to keep the heat off the crowns.
 
rkm rdt

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I once had a crown that had a chip so I sent it back to Argen for a full credit.
Straumann can't do zirconia very well either, maybe they could learn something from this thread.
 
Car 54

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Bob, if there is anything I can help you with, let me know. If you have a diagnostic wax up you're thinking "how and when am I going to get to it", or if I can scan and mill some wax frameworks that are for cast metal or emax press, let me know. If I were a little closer, I'd offer to come over get some model work done for you, if that would've helped.
 
rkm rdt

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Bob, if there is anything I can help you with, let me know. If you have a diagnostic wax up you're thinking "how and when am I going to get to it", or if I can scan and mill some wax frameworks that are for cast metal or emax press, let me know. If I were a little closer, I'd offer to come over get some model work done for you, if that would've helped.

That's the part of the ROI they don't tell you about.
 
Car 54

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You're right, the loss of down time.

It made me think, when user said he found that previously sintered crown that looked so nice, compared to what he had in hand, made me wonder what about those of us who are using the bigger milling centers and what we're getting back? Are they truly sintered to there max potential, or just pretty close? I wonder if we (I) had a sinter oven, and bought a disc of the zirconia from my milling center, and put the time and effort user name and others here put into getting it right, how close it would be?
 
rkm rdt

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You're right, the loss of down time.

It made me think, when user said he found that previously sintered crown that looked so nice, compared to what he had in hand, made me wonder what about those of us who are using the bigger milling centers and what we're getting back? Are they truly sintered to there max potential, or just pretty close? I wonder if we (I) had a sinter oven, and bought a disc of the zirconia from my milling center, and put the time and effort user name and others here put into getting it right, how close it would be?

I'm not stuck with any one milling center so when I get crap from Straumann I let them know that I will not be using their material until they improve.
I have centers banging on my door for my business so I only do business with those who give me consistent results.

It's what I expect and it's what my drs expect. A 48 hr turnaround time is far better for me than working on a saturday night to " dial it in".
th
 
Tayebdental

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What's wrong with the Dekima basic furnace you have Bob?, I have the same furnace and I love the results with XT zirconia and others.
My son( dentist) says, dad when I put your zirconia next to other zirconia ( other associate use) done out west it is the deference between day and night. I am happy with that:)
 
Car 54

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I'm not stuck with any one milling center so when I get crap from Straumann I let them know that I will not be using their material until they improve.
I have centers banging on my door for my business so I only do business with those who give me consistent results.

It's what I expect and it's what my drs expect. A 48 hr turnaround time is far better for me than working on a saturday night to " dial it in".
th

Good to know, as I go between about 2-3 milling centers, but especially CMC for their Zirlux FC2 for zirconia frameworks.
 
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I once had a crown that had a chip so I sent it back to Argen for a full credit.
Straumann can't do zirconia very well either, maybe they could learn something from this thread.
Funny. This exactly my current problem. My crowns look like the stuff I was getting from Argen. That's unacceptable.

I appreciate all the help, kindness and advice from you all.
 
sidesh0wb0b

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Heres my Diary. Laugh at me. Learn from my mistakes. Give me advice.

I have a Dekema basic from Jensen; XT Zr is my main product. Done in their oven, with their parameters, and my coloring formulas, I think my product is as nice as Ive seen full contour. I have a new Mihmvogt Speed Im trying to program. Simply entering the parameters from the XT tech sheet didn't cut it. Everything appeared opaque, gross, unsellable. I played and got it where I thought t was looking decent, but I found a crown in A-2 that had been previously sintered in the Dekema. Next to a crown I just finished, my heart sank. The Dekema sintered crown was translucent, warm, looked beautiful. Youd honestly think it were a high trans product. I was sintering in the Mihm on a quartz speed tray, uncovered. I just received an alumina bowl and lid, so Im starting over. Rather than milling crowns, I took many pieces from used discs, roughly finished to similar size and shape. I did a quick coloring, and now will sinter a couple at a time, one by the edge of the bowl, one in the center. Ill repeat the sinter process, only changing the high temp.

The schedule will be 6 degrees/minute to 1000. 1 hour hold.
3 degrees/ minute to high temp (varies) and a 2 hour hold.

For those of you that are being successful, I must be a laugh. I know there are others though that are struggling too. Its a good oven and a good Zr. Im the weak link.

I will succeed.
I don't want to be too bold, but would you mind showing us (or pm me) some pics? I would love to know how I shape up, and while I have used the XT some, I haven't milled any in house yet....and im not overly thrilled with it. always seemed dead and chalky. might be the nature of the high str zirc....might just be me or my outsourcers.....
im playing with the vericore HT now, which is comparable to the Jensen XT. I "like" the results I am getting, but im not sold that its right where I want it to be.

feel free to pm or call me, would love to touch base with you again and shoot ideas back and forth
 
rkm rdt

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Funny. This exactly my current problem. My crowns look like the stuff I was getting from Argen. That's unacceptable.

I appreciate all the help, kindness and advice from you all.

They make me look good when I make them look good. I guess we work well together.

I'm sure you will find a solution here on dln.
 
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I don't want to be too bold, but would you mind showing us (or pm me) some pics? I would love to know how I shape up, and while I have used the XT some, I haven't milled any in house yet....and im not overly thrilled with it. always seemed dead and chalky. might be the nature of the high str zirc....might just be me or my outsourcers.....
im playing with the vericore HT now, which is comparable to the Jensen XT. I "like" the results I am getting, but im not sold that its right where I want it to be.

feel free to pm or call me, would love to touch base with you again and shoot ideas back and forth
When I pull XT out of the Dekema, theres nothing like it. With help from the great and powerful Eliseo, I have the Dekema back up and running for now. Im not sure how to accept a file, but if we can figure it out, Ill gladly mill, color and sinter one for you. Then you can tell everyone if its great or just another turd. Ill be running a cycle tonight, so lets do this.
 
Car 54

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lol.."the great and powerful Eliseo" :)
 
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