Semi Precious Alloy for GC MC

[jms804]

Have always used high noble metals with MC. Have a client that I give a flat fee for singles, so thinking about using a semi precious on those crowns. Any suggestions?

Thanks

 

[2thm8kr]

Argen 51SF if you are casting. Palladium based, but no margin creep.

 

[charles007]

Jensen has a problem free Noble alloy called Superior, 60 Pd/25 Ag and I've used for years without any checking or discoloring..
Argen has a comparable alloy Argelite 61, 61Pd /28 Ag. Both alloys work well and have a medium light oxide.

You asked for advice ! The dumbest thing I ever did in the lab is sell pfms thinking its ok to use Noble alloy and bill out at Flat Rate pricing.
Only the dental business would think its ok buying high priced Noble precious alloys and selling flat rate makes good business sense. At this time Pd is very high and slim chance of dropping $200./$300. If you start selling at flat rate and Pd increases or decreases its hard to continuely change your prices every time you order alloy. All doctors expect HN pfms to be billed by weight and current Au/Pd market price. Your account will see lower alloy prices using Noble alloys, aprox $300.00 less per ounce than HN at current market price, plus Noble alloys have lower Density, less weight, so stress that to your doctor.
Last time I ordered Superior months ago I think the price was around $735.00 or so plus shipping. Markup your alloy at 50% to 75% for your investment like everyone else does. Btw, its going to cost you more casting Noble using more investment, separate finishing tools, etc for this one account, so keep that in mind if your dead set at pricing flat rate.

 

[doug]

You can always outsource to Argen and get their Cr/Co/Pd alloy SLM. Works well and meets the requirement for a Noble alloy.

 

[charles007]

You can always outsource to Argen and get their Cr/Co/Pd alloy SLM. Works well and meets the requirement for a Noble alloy.

Doug, or anyone, sometimes I use Argens DPM with their Argelite 61 and HN Euro, but mostly DPM on full gold crowns. Fits are not that great, marginal fits, as compared to waxing inhouse. Yet to try SLM, are the fits any better than their DPM ?

 

[doug]

I usually spend a little time on the margins since I don't want any problems at delivery, but I've been happy to this point.

 

[Rick Sonntag]

Have always used high noble metals with MC. Have a client that I give a flat fee for singles, so thinking about using a semi precious on those crowns. Any suggestions?

Thanks

If you can lock him into a price that's profitable for you now at record high palladium prices and the spot price falls, it's a great idea. But, if the uptrend continues you'll be paying for privilege of working for this client. Do your homework.

 

[RDA]

Doug, or anyone, sometimes I use Argens DPM with their Argelite 61 and HN Euro, but mostly DPM on full gold crowns. Fits are not that great, marginal fits, as compared to waxing inhouse. Yet to try SLM, are the fits any better than their DPM ?

I agree with your comments on Argen's DPM fits and marginal fit. They can be good, but not great. I have tried Argen's SLM using the same alloy as I did with the DPM, and the DPM came out better for me. I sent the SLM back for credit, as I could not even use it.

 

[sidesh0wb0b]

Argen 51SF if you are casting. Palladium based, but no margin creep.

i agree except isnt the 51SF considered high noble? i stick with the Argen 35SF, same palladium based with no margin creep. and silver free

 

[2thm8kr]

i agree except isnt the 51SF considered high noble? i stick with the Argen 35SF, same palladium based with no margin creep. and silver free

Probably, I haven't used casting alloy in years.

 

[sidesh0wb0b]

Probably, I haven't used casting alloy in years.

the only down side with those SF alloys is the dark oxide layer. doesnt bother me most times but every now and then on bright bleach PFMs it can be troublesome.
still hand casting all alloys here....which totals maybe one casting a week haha.

 

[doug]

Except of a metal frame to help reinforce a temporary bridge we haven't cast in almost 3 years. At this point I find my time is better spent having a cup of coffee.

 

[2thm8kr]

the only down side with those SF alloys is the dark oxide layer. doesnt bother me most times but every now and then on bright bleach PFMs it can be troublesome.
still hand casting all alloys here....which totals maybe one casting a week haha.

I always blasted the oxide off before a powder opaque wash bake and then two paste firings.

I used to spend a whole day under a scope finishing my metal work for the week. Usually Tuesday. Glad I don't do metal anymore.

 

[charles007]

I never liked high Pd alloys because of extra Pd cost and mainly because of the dark oxides that tend to show their face with a dark line around the margins and anywhere else you don't get excellent opaque coverage. Here's a tip for high Pd alloy users and light shades. Spray on white opaque modifier as your bonding coat. Its a great time saver if your opaquing a group of crowns and worth the extra time to hide the black line on pfms. If your not using a dark oxide alloy spray on opaque A1 or 50/50 white and A1 as your bonding coat. After being an almost all ceramic lab for years and rarely doing pfms, that black line around the margins seems darker now. Plus porcelain shoulder margins are obsolete now, at least in my lab. Its well worth the time to invest in a spray opaquer if you never used one and still doing pfms.

 

[TheLabGuy]

Argens Argelite 61 is what we use with our GC MC, never had an issue

 

[charles007]

Argens Argelite 61 is what we use with our GC MC, never had an issue m

Me to Rob, used Argelite 61 for over 30 years, and even on Vita porcelain and never had problems. The CTE works for so many porcelains systems.