Scanner Data Samples

3

3ShapeSupportGuy

New Member
Messages
15
Reaction score
0
Hi everybody,
interesting thread. I just discussed the topic with some of my colleagues in the 3Shape Scanner Development department.

They had some interesting points that I would like to share with you. See below:

.......................................................................................................


What’s the optimal vertex area density?

Obviously, a few vertices per mm^2 won’t capture all relevant details, but “the more, the better” does not hold, either. An unnecessarily high vertex density is a disadvantage, because it means increased processing time all the way through the CAD/CAM chain.

Instead of simply applying “brute-force” meshing with tiny triangles everywhere, 3Shape have put considerable effort into developing an intelligent meshing algorithm. It preserves detail where needed (in the prep area),but uses few triangles in flat or irrelevant parts. The original poster of this thread has since provided a nice example of the outcome of our algorithm (see http://dentallabnetwork.com/forums/f33/scanner-data-samples-9705/#post57741). Also notice that not only the triangle density, but also their elongation matches the surface curvature.

The vertex density and meshing algorithm that 3Shape have chosen as optimal for their scanners is the outcome of extensive real-world testing, with thousands of units produced in labs in many countries. We always welcome feedback from customers who see poor fits anyhow; other errors in the manufacturing process may be the cause.


What does it all mean for accuracy?

We completely agree with the poster’s statement that vertex density is not indicative of accuracy. The science of high accuracy measurement – metrology – applies reference objects with accuracies much higher than the scanner. These objects can only be manufactured by specialized accredited companies or metrology laboratories. With a reference object mimicking a die, it becomes clear that different scanner brands perform quite differently, and many alarming results are revealed – for example, some scanners can round an edge incorrectly with an error much larger than the oft-stated scanner accuracy of 20 microns.


ai1248.photobucket.com_albums_hh490_DrFuentes_Accuracy.png
Figure: Two scanner brands’ measurements (blue line: 3Shape, orange line: Other Dental scanner) of a nominally sharp edge in a custom-made ceramic reference tooth object (middle). Note the relatively large difference in accuracy around the sharp edges.


With an implant bar reference objects, 3Shape tests reveal an error of less than 3 microns along the insertion direction, i.e. in the level of the implants seating surface. This error is on the same magnitude as the reference objects accuracy.


ai1248.photobucket.com_albums_hh490_DrFuentes_Measuringareferenceobject.png
Figure: Left: Measuring a reference object with a high-end coordinate measurement machine (accuracy 3 microns). Right: 3Shape scan of an implant bar reference object with errors in the insertion direction [in microns].


For demanding work, such as long span bridges and implant bars, it is especially important that a scanner is re-calibrated when moved or when the lab’s temperature changes. Therefore, 3Shape scanners come with unique calibration object with a lithographic reference pattern with an accuracy of 2 microns. Software algorithms cannot compensate for highly complex hardware deformations that inevitably follow from transportation or thermal expansion/contraction.
ai1248.photobucket.com_albums_hh490_DrFuentes_Accuracy.png ai1248.photobucket.com_albums_hh490_DrFuentes_Measuringareferenceobject.png
 
NicelyMKV

NicelyMKV

Well-Known Member
Full Member
Messages
3,557
Reaction score
262
I understand what your saying about high point density and calculation times of the system. Great info. I set my scanner to very high density and the extra calculation time of my system is minuscule. It would be interesting to test the point of diminishing returns on some of these awful dies I get ;)
 
k2 Ceramic Studio

k2 Ceramic Studio

Well-Known Member
Full Member
Messages
1,084
Reaction score
39
High vertex density is a disadvantage

An unnecessarily high vertex density is a disadvantage because it means increased processing time all the way through the CAD/CAM chain.

Great info, but if high vertex density = Increased processing time, then is that really such a bad thing? don't we all want to get the best out of our systems, not cut a few corners just to shave off a second or two, my scanner has a REDUCED SCAN MODE, Which idiot thought that idea up? I did not spend all that money so I could produce substandard work to save 60 seconds on a scan!
 
Slipstream

Slipstream

Active Member
Full Member
Messages
361
Reaction score
3
aimages.gizmag.com_hero_aptus_ii_5.jpg

80 Megapixels - great but a bit much for posting facebook pictures - upload in under a month from your iphone
aimages.gizmag.com_hero_aptus_ii_5.jpg
 
k2 Ceramic Studio

k2 Ceramic Studio

Well-Known Member
Full Member
Messages
1,084
Reaction score
39
aimages.gizmag.com_hero_aptus_ii_5.jpg

80 Megapixels - great but a bit much for posting facebook pictures - upload in under a month from your iphone

Not too sure if thats a good analogy, facebook v livelihood and iphone v cad computer, All I am saying is that I want my scanner to give me the best possible scan it can and not to dumb down the scan data! as I want my milling machine to have the best shot it can at producing a quality restoration. I don't care how long it takes (within reason). Nice camera BTW :)
aimages.gizmag.com_hero_aptus_ii_5.jpg
 
pingvin

pingvin

New Member
Messages
111
Reaction score
0
Cerec Red Tooth
vert spacing: 173 microns
are density: 47.3 verst/mm^2

Cerec Red Implant Abut
vert spacing: 178.5 microns
area density: 42.7 verts/mm^2

Cerec Red Entire Mesh
vert spacing: 176.6 microns
area density: 45.2 verts/mm^2

Cerec AC Entire Mesh (prep side)
vert spacing: 213.2 microns
area density: 30.5 verts/mm^2

**Repeated data from above***

CEREC AC Prep Region Only
vert spacing: 213.2 microns
area density: 31.5 verts/mm^2

Here are the two meshes side by side (red left blue right)
adl.dropbox.com_u_2586482_SreenShots_red_left_blue_right.png

Patmo, do I understand correctly that 2 scans on the picture were taken with the lab scanner not intraoral scanner?

Could you send me those 2 files please (I assume they are in STL)? I would like to see up close the margin area.

Can anyone send me intraoral scan from Sirona (in STL)?

my mail:
[email protected]
adl.dropbox.com_u_2586482_SreenShots_red_left_blue_right.png
 
Labwa

Labwa

Active Member
Full Member
Messages
967
Reaction score
84
i have some blue scans but also looking for some red scans
 
P

paulg100

Well-Known Member
Full Member
Messages
2,163
Reaction score
42
the left image is from an inoes inlab redcam, from a case i did a while back.

I have the STL (converted via dental shaper)

its to big to email though, about 25mb.
 
P

patmo141

Active Member
Sponsors
Full Member
Messages
436
Reaction score
56
The right hand scan is from a Cerec AC intraoral scanner on a dentoform though, not actually in the mouth.
 
pingvin

pingvin

New Member
Messages
111
Reaction score
0
OK, the simplest solution is a DropBox:
Dropbox - Simplify your life

2 Gb are free! It is a 2 minute work. You provide your name, email and password. You download and install application. You drop a file you want to share into a (Public) DropBox folder on your computer. File gets uploaded. On DropBox web site you get unique url address of your file. You share the url address with whomever you wish to access that particular file.

Sample from my dropbox:
Zirkonzahn S600
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/60536136/z16.stl

3Shape D500
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/60536136/PreparationScan_D500.stl

3Shape D700
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/60536136/PreparationScan_D700.stl

3Shape D800
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/60536136/PreparationScan_D800.stl

Patmo141:
Cerec AC intraoral scanner on a dentoform
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/60536136/Cerec_AC_intraoral_scanner_on_a_dentoform_patmo141.stl

Cerec AC intraoral scanner on a dentoform tooth 19
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/60536136/Cerec_AC_intraoral_scanner_on_a_dentoform__tooth_19_patmo141.stl
 
Last edited:
pingvin

pingvin

New Member
Messages
111
Reaction score
0
The right hand scan is from a Cerec AC intraoral scanner on a dentoform though, not actually in the mouth.

Patmo, would it be ok if you send me all your scanes and I'll upload them to the DropBox, or you upload them to your DropBox?
 
P

patmo141

Active Member
Sponsors
Full Member
Messages
436
Reaction score
56
sent! Dropbox and Yousendit owe me for some major advertising :) ha ha.
 
P

patmo141

Active Member
Sponsors
Full Member
Messages
436
Reaction score
56
more results

Here are the results from the files pingvin posted above. Also, keep in mind for the 3shape files, I didn't take the time to separate the "margin area" vs other areas and we know that their mesh density is modified based on the features present. I will however try and post a side by side screenshot. It should be noted that the D500, D700 and D800 examples here are from the same prep...which is kinda cool.

Zirkonzahn S600
vert spacing: 195.9 microns
are density: 29.5 verst/mm^2

3Shape D500 Prep
vert spacing: 149.5 microns
area density: 62.8 verst/mm^2

3Shape D700 Prep
vert spacing: 148.6 microns
area density: 64.3 verst/mm^2

3Shape D800 Prep
vert spacing: 142.9 microns
area density: 68.7 verst/mm^2

It is interesting how the numbers change in correlaion with the model number D500, D700, D800. As a reminder smaller vert spacing and larger area density means "greater ability to represent smaller features."
 
P

patmo141

Active Member
Sponsors
Full Member
Messages
436
Reaction score
56
Here are the d500, d700 and d800 screen shots all of the same prep and with the same "zoom" in Blender. I tried to take a view of exactly the same area. In order, 500, 700, 800.

adl.dropbox.com_u_2586482_SreenShots_d500.png

adl.dropbox.com_u_2586482_SreenShots_d700.png

adl.dropbox.com_u_2586482_SreenShots_d800.png
adl.dropbox.com_u_2586482_SreenShots_d500.png adl.dropbox.com_u_2586482_SreenShots_d700.png adl.dropbox.com_u_2586482_SreenShots_d800.png
 
pingvin

pingvin

New Member
Messages
111
Reaction score
0
It is interesting, that there is not much of a difference on the prep tooth, but there is quite a difference on the model as a whole. D800 has much more saturated net. Why is that? Are prep tooths scaned separately one by one? And why is data missing on D800, check palato incisal on frontal (a small hole) and mesial on second frontal. Check this picture (too big to be posted here): http://dl.dropbox.com/u/60536136/3shape_3_comparisons.jpg

Also, S600 numbers are weird. The tech told me that point space is "on a straight surface 7-20µ". Now I wonder where did data go???


adding 2 more files from Paul:
InEos Red coping
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/60536136/ineos_red_coping_paul.stl

InEos Red model
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/60536136/ineos_red_model_paul.stl
 
Last edited:
DMC

DMC

Banned
Messages
6,378
Reaction score
260
file sent from Italian Stripe-Light scanner.... interested to see your response.

I guess many points are closer to 70um?

I'm curious to overall density?

Scott



ai930.photobucket.com_albums_ad145_turbo2nr_italydiescan.jpg
ai930.photobucket.com_albums_ad145_turbo2nr_italydiescan.jpg
 
Last edited:

Similar threads

M
Replies
50
Views
6K
rkm rdt
rkm rdt
T
Replies
0
Views
2K
thedentalcadcam
T
Mark Jackson
Replies
7
Views
3K
doug
Top Bottom