rotation mystery

[rkm rdt]

I've had a few returns where the implant is rotated in the mouth. Here's the facts
- Trios scan
-Straumann WN scan body
-dr verified seating of scan body with xrays.
-scan body is aligned in software and designed for a split file. Abutment to Straumann, crown and model sent to Argen.
-the implant crown fits fine on model but rotated in the mouth.
I suspect the WN peek scan body is worn . It seats but the hex could be rounded. When screw is tightened it rotates slightly and give a false reading. However the dr claims it is a newer scan body. I will be inspecting the scan body with 10x although dr says it looks fine under 3x loops.
Any suggestions?

 

[Affinity]

Ive had that happen too, only like 1 degree off for whatever reason. This happened with an astra. Only 1 of the 2 adjacent crowns were rotated..

Could be over-torquing like you say, and rotating past where it should be.. I dont know, but I hate when that happens.. I also question how well the abutments actually align sometimes, but shouldnt be completely rotated.. Some abutments like implant direct have libraries with varying degrees, Im not sure if that is used to change the angle of an angled abutment or..

 

[sidesh0wb0b]

I've had a few returns where the implant is rotated in the mouth. Here's the facts
- Trios scan
-Straumann WN scan body
-dr verified seating of scan body with xrays.
-scan body is aligned in software and designed for a split file. Abutment to Straumann, crown and model sent to Argen.
-the implant crown fits fine on model but rotated in the mouth.
I suspect the WN peek scan body is worn . It seats but the hex could be rounded. When screw is tightened it rotates slightly and give a false reading. However the dr claims it is a newer scan body. I will be inspecting the scan body with 10x although dr says it looks fine under 3x loops.
Any suggestions?

how far rotated?

 

[rkm rdt]

how far rotated?

Probably by one hex.
The mesial contact is open and it seems to rotate clockwise which I suspect is from tightening.

 

[doug]

60' is a lot of movement

 

[rkm rdt]

60' is a lot of movement

Good point Doug, I was assuming it was one hex but it seemed more like about 30 degrees.
So this leads me to suspect the scan body was worn which would negate the hex.

 

[CoolHandLuke]

Good point Doug, I was assuming it was one hex but it seemed more like about 30 degrees.
So this leads me to suspect the scan body was worn which would negate the hex.

30' is about the right size to see a WN body rotate around a RN implant.

 

[rkm rdt]

30' is about the right size to see a WN body rotate around a RN implant.

It's a good thought but dr has extensive experience and only restores Straumann.
She has also verified seating with xrays.

 

[sidesh0wb0b]

Probably by one hex.
The mesial contact is open and it seems to rotate clockwise which I suspect is from tightening.

thats a rather large difference. any chance the scan body wasnt seated fully? i know you said it was verified, but an entire hex shift is a ton.
nvm, just saw your other message regarding 30' and not a full hex.

these sort of situations i request an analog impression and compare the two. ive found "verified by x-ray" scan bodies not seated fully in the past. usually because the tissue depth changes too (once the scan body or imp post is finally fully seated). not trying to beat up the Dr. just tossing out ideas.

 

[a3dl]

IS it the Peek scanbody from straumann that can fatigue?

 

[rkm rdt]

IS it the Peek scanbody from straumann that can fatigue?

That’s my theory. I hope to inspect it tomorrow under 10x

 

[rkm rdt]

thats a rather large difference. any chance the scan body wasnt seated fully? i know you said it was verified, but an entire hex shift is a ton.
nvm, just saw your other message regarding 30' and not a full hex.

these sort of situations i request an analog impression and compare the two. ive found "verified by x-ray" scan bodies not seated fully in the past. usually because the tissue depth changes too (once the scan body or imp post is finally fully seated). not trying to beat up the Dr. just tossing out ideas.

I don’t think the dr has any pvs or impression copings. We have been IOS since 2014

 

[Affinity]

Maybe a 3shape glitch processing the geometry or model?

Maybe what you see on the screen isnt the output you get in the stl..

 

[rkm rdt]

Maybe a 3shape glitch processing the geometry or model?

Maybe what you see on the screen isnt the output you get in the stl..

Just for WN ? All other platforms are fine and I haven’t upgraded since 2021.

 

[zero_zero]

This happened to me long time ago, when I still used 3sheep. --> PVS impression, model scanned with a scanbody, crown milled, anti rotation dimple on the Ti insert was 90 degrees off... long story short, it was the implant lib's fault, the base geometry was rotated. Solution: fire up the 3D editor and de-rotate the scanbody files.

What could be done is to take a PVS impression on the same patient and compare it to the printed model, then go from there. It is most likely the implant lib. IMO

 

[rkm rdt]

This happened to me long time ago, when I still used 3sheep. --> PVS impression, model scanned with a scanbody, crown milled, anti rotation dimple on the Ti insert was 90 degrees off... long story short, it was the implant lib's fault, the base geometry was rotated. Solution: fire up the 3D editor and de-rotate the scanbody files.

What could be done is to take a PVS impression on the same patient and compare it to the printed model, then go from there. It is most likely the implant lib. IMO

hy would the library change from a few months ago? Should I have Straumann reinstall the dme file?

 

[rkm rdt]

would the windows 11 upgrade change the library?

 

[sidesh0wb0b]

I don’t think the dr has any pvs or impression copings. We have been IOS since 2014

well that seems silly.
i have a computer but i still have a piece of paper and pen!

when you figure it out, i would love to hear whats been going on. helps me troubleshoot on this end when it pops up....and eventually it will

 

[Affinity]

Blaming the computer is always better than blaming yourself or the dentist. Windows updates always make my computer dumber.. The computer Im on now is still on Windows 7

 

[JKraver]

Likely the Library file, or a glitch in the matrix....